SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to the Good Old Blades Podcast. I am your host, Aaron LeBeer. And join me as we talk to other knife makers and craftsmen about anything and everything knives. Knives run deep in America as the quintessential companion of the Avidou Dorseman, working man and woman, boy, girl, everyday carrier, and collector alike. In the early 70s, the emergence of the Knifemakers Guild and American Bladesmith Society captured a boom of handmade knife makers in America, and with it came the American Blade magazine, edited by Blackie Collins. In 1982, after being purchased by Jim Parker and Bruce Voyles, the name was changed to Blade, and within its first few years under the helm of Bruce Voils, saw the early stages of what we now know as Blade Show. Additionally, Blade established a Cutlery Hall of Fame to honor living knife makers for their extraordinary contributions to the craft. Prior to its sale in 1994, Steve Shackelford was the editor of Blade magazine and has maintained that position for over 30 years. He's contributed not only to the shaping of knives in America, but around the world through his influence in print, shows, and coordinated effort. Steve is the first to call out all of the extraordinary contributors that make Blade magazine, Blade Show, and the industry as a whole work. And I got to sit down with him and talk about his humble beginnings in publication, hot tips and advice for the knife maker, his prognosis for where the industry is going, and to talk about Blade Show Atlanta 2024. Steve, it's an incredible honor to get to talk to you on the Good Old Blades Podcast. And finally we were able to sync up calendars and everything. And I have to say it's really great to have you on and to get to talk to somebody who I have admired in print and with the association with Blade Show for so long and Blade magazine. And so I just really want to thank you for your time. I know it's precious to you. And I'm I mean that to say that you are one of the what I would consider an industry staple that is uh trying to move and shake uh the industry in a way that is beneficial to us all. And I personally would like to know more about your journey from you know how you got started, you know, what was your background to today. So I don't know how far back that goes inside of your knife interests or kind of how you got started in in you know print and whatnot, but I would just love to know more about you zero to now and how how this thing came about. Because to me it seems like there's there's a lot of different routes that anybody could go. Um but this one seems to be pretty amazing, the one that you've traveled.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Well, sure. I uh basically I uh got my journalism degree at the University of Tennessee, graduated there in 1980, and I was a sports writer. I wanted to go into sports journalism. Uh I covered the Tennessee Balls, the football team, tennis, uh, baseball, basketball, swimming, everything. And I worked for the student newspaper, the Daily Beacon, and I had my weekly column there. And uh when I left college, it went and I also worked as a stringer for the Oak Rider newspaper, $30 a story. This was like in 1980, I'd go hop in my boatswagon and go cover local basketball games and football games and write them up for the Oak Rider. But uh I graduated from there and really I'd worked for a daily or weekly newspaper uh uh starting out. It was the Chatsworth Times in northeast Georgia, and uh worked there for oh, about a week or two when I saw there was a what was $125 a week uh rip roaring salary, and uh I saw I saw in the paper that there was a job opening at the Katusa County News in Ringo, Georgia for $182 a week, and I was going, wow. So I got that job, worked there for three years, and uh covered a little bit of everything from uh uh town hall meetings to uh sports events. I'd go out and shoot the largest uh uh eggplant the farmers had. We'd put that in the plot the paper. They'd grow giant pumpkins, we'd photograph that, we did a little bit of everything. And uh I left there, worked for Blue Cross and Blue Shields publication for six months, left there, and basically was out of uh work. I was a house painter, and uh I saw this uh, or I went to the Tennessee Employment Security Agency and saw checked to see what they had available. And the guy there told me, Well, I know of a job that's gonna come open in about a week, and you can contact them, but you can't tell them that I told you about it. I said, Oh, okay. So that it was Bruce Voyles at uh Blade magazine, and he needed somebody to uh edit the Edges tabloid, which was a like collector newspaper. So uh I showed up that to uh for the interview with Bruce, and uh and when uh he opened the door, he was going, Well, what are you done here? And I said, I'm here for the interview, and he said that was yesterday. And I said, Uh, well, I thought it was today. And he goes, Oh well, come on in. So uh we talked and uh he hired me to edit edges. That was this was 1985. And uh uh of course I would also work on Blade and uh edit stories, write stories. I also sold ads. But uh it kind of just took off there. He made me managing editor of Edges, and then I became many managing editor of Blade. I believe it was in 1991. And uh you know, we were doing the Blade Show all along that that stretch. I went to my first Blade show in 1986, or I'm sorry, yeah, 86. And uh uh, you know, been going ever since. Bru uh Bruce sold the magazine to Crausy Publications in Wisconsin, or of Wisconsin in uh 1994. And uh he told them if they didn't uh keep me as editor, the the magazine wouldn't work. They wanted me to move up to Wisconsin, but I didn't want to. So they let me work out of the house, and uh I've been working out of the house since 1994.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

That's pretty uh that's pretty pioneering, right? Um in the sense that you know work work from home is kind of like a lot of newer concept for the majority of America, but you were like, hmm, that's uh uh definitely an easier gig, right? I mean, uh I can understand not wanting to move, especially with a publication uh purchase and whatnot. So uh yeah, it's definitely cool to have that kind of uh latitude with being able to move around the country.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah, they uh uh were very accommodating and told me that uh, well, you know, you can do it from your place. You'll just have to be disciplined enough to do it. So, you know, I just got up every morning, brushed my teeth, uh, came into my office at 8 30, stay till 5 30, done it that done it that way every day pretty much since since then. And I don't have any problem, you know, disciplining myself to do this. It's a job, there are deadlines. That's what's really good about uh publications, you've got deadlines, it drives you. So you've always got a goal. And uh that's very important uh for me anyhow. If I didn't have a deadline, I don't know how good a worker I would be.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah, that that makes sense. Um with with the because Blade magazine um has had uh several different owners over uh the the you know the your your tenure. Um how do you feel like that those early days with uh you know after Bruce had sold uh the the magazine and everything and you working there and then you know uh subsequent acquisitions, how the consistency has been in ownership. Like have you had a lot of autonomy, or is that something that you've been uh you know leading the magazine? Like uh what what level of involvement have you been able to have in you know the the decision making as an editor from owner to owner?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

They pretty much have let me do do pretty much what I want ever uh since. They don't really uh give me that many uh uh requirements other than meeting deadlines. I I do all the editorial, I uh create the editorial calendars, uh I write uh stories, I edit all the stories, I write all the captions, I do all the headlines, the cover blurbs. Uh we decide I uh I I basically decide what's going to be on the cover, although we do have input. The staff does get together and uh w we change knives around and that kind of thing. But uh we're basically, you know, trying to make a uh product that's very uh appealing, uh cover-wise. And uh of course we've been on newsstands since 1986. So uh it's yeah, it's but I have had a lot of uh uh liberty in in making decisions and I I really enjoy doing it that way.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah. Well, I mean I and I can see that too. I mean, uh as soon as I got into knives, well actually before I was really uh making knives as a uh quasi-job uh blade magazine and and knives knife magazine were like the two that I really were looking for for industry knowledge and kind of to to see what trends and things like that were. But in addition with you know editing the magazine and everything itself, you'd had also done uh you know the Blade's Guide to Knives and Values and had other book publications as well, correct?

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Yes. Uh I've written uh see, we did the uh Bill Moran book, Forever a Legend, the ABS Jay Hendrickson and and company, they uh they hired me to do that. I've written the uh the book of the uh the sword book, uh uh that uh was well received, uh Spirit of the Sword, we called it. And uh I've also done, of course, the greatest living knife makers, which we're selling now. And uh like I say I uh edited the Blades Guide, the Knives and Their Values uh for several years. And uh that's pretty much it on the book end, I think.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Yeah, and the uh the annual knife magazine uh like uh the uh the the compilation of the years previous, you also uh publish that, correct?

SPEAKER_01 12:02

You mean the knives annual?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Well, no, that's uh well our company publishes it and Joe Kurtzman edits it.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Okay. Uh do you guys uh uh as the as the magazine proper, I guess, uh do you guys have input into that? Or um because you know, um the reason why I ask is because you know I I had in 2021 or two, I had I think it was 2022, um I had a knife uh that was published as part of like the uh the new makers or the uh uh you know in the in the magazine, and it made it into that compilation um at the uh you know, I think it was it was either 2022 or 2023. Um and I just uh you know I wasn't aware exactly of of how all of that worked in publication.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Joe pretty much uh determines everything that goes in the book. Now, Jim Schlinder, our publisher, he will get with Joe and uh you know try to fine-tune things and uh uh uh uh that sort of thing. But basically it's Joe Kurtzman. That's that's pretty much his bailiwick. He's been doing that for oh golly, I don't know how long probably as long as Ken Warner did it.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Yeah. Um that's um that's really interesting. I um you know uh something that as knife makers that we think a lot about is uh photography, right? And I've always thought that um having good professional photography is one of the best um complements to a knife maker's work, not only because it shows a portfolio, which I've always thought was important if you're doing arts and crafts, you know, you want to have uh you know a represent representation that's high quality, but also the streamlined process that you guys uh have with those photographers and being able to add it to the uh roster uh of you know available knives that you guys publish. Um and so uh can you talk a little bit about kind of what that what that looks like or what the uh photographer input is as you as you guys evaluate it for the magazine?

SPEAKER_01 14:07

The photographers are uh crucial to us. They without them there would be no Blade magazine. Uh Jim Wire, uh he's passed away now, but he's in the Hall of Fame. He was the original knife photographer, and he would uh uh he was the first one to go to the makers and say, okay, I'm gonna shoot your knives for you know so many knives, uh, I'll charge you that. And include it in your fee, I will send your knives, uh, images of your knives to all the knife publications. Uh uh and the of course not the knife magazines won't have to pay for it. You will. So the knife makers, when they had their knives photographed, in the payment for those knives, not only did they get the images, though they had those images sent to the to the knife publications for them. And all the other uh photographers since then, Eric Igley, Jim Cooper, uh Jocelyn Fraser, uh Rod Hoare of Australia, they all send us the images free of charge and and along with spec sheets. So we have just a vast library of uh knife images to choose from, and it's uh really nice. I I without that uh you know, I don't know we would that we would even still be in business. That all started with Jim Wire.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah, I uh I saw uh contributions from Jim Wire in uh in old publications because I've done some historical um evaluation, especially as it relates to the guild um and and some of those old photos and whatnot. Uh very, very pioneering mind and having them in f you know, full color um options and things like that. So um it's interesting to me how uh photography and the the art of um displaying knives has changed over time because you know I saw some like you know the motif like setting up uh the knives in uh um you know, like framing the knives and setting them up with uh different backdrops and and features like uh you know guns or uh other uh accoutrements, right? To to a lot more of the uh now the backdrops are beautiful in their own right, but then it also gives you the ability to crop it out pretty easily for the the sake of publication. Um and I've I've enjoyed that, like the the consistency that photography has been able to uh maintain with uh within publication. Um I've also noticed that there's a fewer, I guess, newer knife makers or um newer uh photographers inside of the context of knives that have cropped up too. Because you know, when I uh when I got into it, it was like, you know, you send everything to Jim uh because uh Jim is like the best of the best. But I've actually been interested to see that there's a you know a uh phenomenal roster of of great knife makers, uh photographers uh that have cropped up too.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Now you are you talking about the knife makers who photographed their knives?

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Uh no, no, I mean I mean the photographers themselves. Um for instance, for instance, uh I guess uh uh Cohen. I haven't seen like uh uh you know a lot of his work previous to the last few years, I guess, um but I've seen a lot more of his work being uh like showing up in print, like his uh photographs.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

He is Mitch is a fantastic photographer. We use him, he he kind of specializes, he'll send us stuff every once in a while, and uh uh but he's not as prolific as the others, but he's excellent, and he will be at the Blade Show, speaking of. He'll have a uh set up there. And uh anytime he wants, you know, uh offers his knife, his images thus, well, nine times out of ten, we're gonna use him uh one way or another. So yeah, he's a he is another great example of a of a great photographer.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Uh-huh. Yeah, and uh, you know, something about the the uh knifemakers guild is you know, every every show um we try to do uh like we do our awards, and it's always complemented with a photographer, so that way, you know, you have the award, you get the f the photography, and then also the uh you know the opportunity to uh have publication around that. And so I I don't think that it would be quite the same effect of just receiving the war award if it wasn't for the photography and the ability to be publicized, because those, you know, those are accolades that I think that should be lauded. And I really I I don't I don't see the industry working as well if it's not for publication, uh photography and the knife maker all working together.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

I think that's right. Uh there is a lot of cooperation uh across all uh uh parts of the industry. Uh everybody understands the importance of phot uh the the photographs, and uh of course all you gotta do is look at social media for that. But uh uh it is, it's a it's just such a crucial part. And I think it really helps the makers too, because they can see the other makers' work, they can see the different angles of the knives, they know what the dimensions of the knives are. That's one of the things we always get from knife makers. I say, always be sure to put the overall length of the knife in there because they they they're trying to figure out exactly if they want to reproduce something similar, they want to know the exact dimensions, uh, and you know so we do that, but we always try to give uh proper attribution too, because we know these these photographers uh uh they appreciate that and it lets people know exactly who these guys are and uh the great work that they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah, I I totally agree. Um how like speaking of social media, how how do you feel since the proliferation of so uh social media that that has affected the the industry of publication and and also you know what we're talking about with the proliferation of photography and and the the knife maker outside of the context of like shows and and magazines?

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Well, one thing it's done is it's uh the news function of knife magazines is pretty much uh meaningless now because it we can't really put out something that's uh uh you know news. It's it's already been on social media for weeks, days, if not weeks, before we can publish. So it has changed. Uh changed us in that regard. We go more now for features, how-to's, uh historical stuff, um and that kind of thing. So but it's still uh it it we're still able to do things that that I think uh it's you you just can't see on social media, just like our spreads when we can get the latest knives that come in and we can do like a six, seven page spread on all these knives in one spot that I don't know, the the the ability to uh show what's new and have people be able to you know just stay there, look at it, have it in their hands. Uh we still have an advantage in that regard, but it's getting tougher all the time.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah, I uh I I'm genuinely distrustful of social media, and it's probably because I I love print so much. Um but I realize I I know very little about print, like uh other than the fact that I have a magazine in my hand. But all of all of the the actual publishing components of things and how how this like spider web of deadlines and deliverables all works together. I mean, to me, I don't know that if my mind could really like handle that much complexity. And I really like give you props that you've been able to helm this for so long and provide uh very consistent results uh year after year, you know, uh you know, issue after issue.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It's uh I think it goes back actually to uh working on that weekly newspaper in Katusa County. I I had to do it all then too, and uh it just prepared me for for doing this magazine. One thing, one reason Bruce wanted uh uh somebody from a weekly newspaper is because when you work on a weekly newspaper, you know you have to know just about everybody in your community. And uh that's basically the way the knife industry is. You're always going to be working with the same people down through the years. So you you know you've got to treat people decently and because you're gonna deal with them again. So uh that was one of the reasons he hired me. So it was kind of a double combination advantage for me. It prepared me for having to put all that uh material together, plus dealing with people in the knife industry.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah, that makes total sense. And I and I agree. I mean, integrity and treating uh treating people right, I think is a it's a key component of our business because even even though uh it seems like we're in a fairly large pond inside of the context of the world, it's pretty small. Uh so news travels fast.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah, the knife industry is compared to most industries, it's remains pretty small. Of course, I'm talking more of the sporting knife industry. The kitchen knife industry is huge, it's much larger than the uh sporting knife industry. But we don't the the kitchen guys, they they kind of I don't know, they've they've shown us, I guess they they have other bigger uh uh venues that they can put their stuff in. And Blade uh is in the blade show, really are more sport, sporting knife-oriented and collector knife-oriented, custom knife. The kitchen knife guys like the Woostoffs and the uh uh Pankles, outfits like that, they don't come to the Blade Show. We tried to get them for years, but they wouldn't come. And uh so we're just growing the sporting knife industry, which is getting bigger all the time.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, um I I've noticed that too. It's uh but I I I also think um observationally that it is good for the custom maker inside of cutlery or the artisan maker in cutlery because um because these larger you know factories um um and manufacturers of cutlery are not occupying so much of that space, it seems like the custom maker and the you know the artist or art knife uh maker in in the context of cutlery has a little bit more room to shine and get exposure into those things.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

They they do have an advantage in that regard. They uh uh they can experiment more, they're not limited by uh uh production requirements. Uh you know, it that it's just a uh and plus the the collectors, they they just like the customs knives more. It's there's just a romance to it, meeting the collectors up close and personal at shows, shaking their hands. And some of these makers, you know, they'll they'll but let people come to their shops. Uh it's just kind it's really a like a social thing with the custom guys that the factory guys cannot duplicate.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Yeah. Well, and and also it's uh it also breeds more uh celebrities, I guess, as it were. Like, I mean, if we look at uh something like the adjacency to Fortune Fire and like Neil Kamamura, right, um uh doing more cutlery-oriented knives, and uh like Will uh Will Stelter, um, you know, Steve Schwarzer uh uh help like kind of helming some of those things. Uh those those entities that also exist inside of the Blade Show and Blade Magazine ecosystem um and how much they have contributed towards cutlery kind of makes them superstars inside of this industry as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yeah. Uh yes. Uh of course, Will, he uh he he's a big social media guy, so he covers all the bases. Um and Neil, of course, he's well regarded in the uh kitchen knife end of it, but uh Schwarzer is he's like the ambassador of uh custom knives. That guy's been doing it for so long. Uh Mosaic Damascus still, uh uh the ABS American Blazeman Society is teaching. Uh and he's just such a character. He's a great interview, great storyteller. Uh he really has been great at his his selection of the cutlery hall of fame last year was long overdue, I might add.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah. I was very proud to see him uh make that, um, him and uh Devin Thomas and uh Bob Terzuola. Um I think that that was uh great for uh custom knives and cutlery to have those specially in there. Um I wanna I want to talk a little bit about you know, we we talked about your history inside of uh getting into the knife industry, but was there anything that uh like other than the job being the job that made you think that knives was the way to go?

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Not really. I just uh uh I'd always like knives, you know. All boys like knives. I mean, I had my little four-blade Camillas uh boy uh camp knife. I bought a number of those when I was a kid. I'd lose one just buy another one. Uh you know, all boys like knives. And but I never had any real uh desire or inclination to get into writing about knives. I never even thought about it. And uh, but I figured, you know, uh I could write and uh I like knives. And uh uh when I talked to Bruce, he was he seemed to think I had the background working with a with a weekly newspaper that it would work. And uh I was tired of painting houses. So I was ready to try it out, and uh it just it I learned about knives over the years. Like Bruce says, you learn about knives if you work in them by osmosis. It just you just over time you don't realize how much knowledge you're uh accumulating, but then all of a sudden you know these things, these words start coming to you naturally, and uh you get to meet all these neat people. I've met so many fantastic people over the years, Bill Moran, Bob Lovless, oh God, George Heron, uh just the number of people, Sal Glesser, uh Chuck Buck, uh uh I just it I cannot uh s uh tell you how how what a uh how satisfying it has been to meet these people and work with them. And uh it's just it's I've really been blessed.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah, I've I've always thought that that'd be interesting, you know, because uh as a younger knife maker, uh, you know, you hear of these names, right? And uh you know, because they're past, obviously, um it's very difficult to uh to get a full picture of them. That's kind of why I started the podcast, is because you know I wanted to capture you know uh the the greats inside of the context of knives and talk while we could uh because it always seems like you know tomorrow is too late uh sometimes. Um I felt that way about uh Tony Bowes and uh A.G. Russell uh when we lost them. I had the opportunity to talk to them, but I don't know if it was because of like uh amateur cowardice or what, but I never really I never reached out. And so I missed those opportunities just to be able to pick their brains and to understand them as people versus this image that we all have of them inside of the knife industry. So um it's been highly beneficial uh to me to use uh Blade magazine as a reference point uh to be able to talk to people in the context of this podcast too, and and try to reach out to them within social media. Uh and uh like to me, I use Blade as a reference point for a lot of um how how I move within the knife industry.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Yes. Um blade is uh it's one of those things that uh I don't know, it it just it's always I remember Bruce always uh when when he left Blade, of course, no, he went to become editor of Knives Illustrated. And uh of course after he sold Blade, I should say. And I remember him telling me I I never knew how tough it was uh to go against or how how uh influential Blade was until I had to compete against it. And it's really the name itself. It's just been around since 1973, and it's just you know, we just had our 50th anniversary last year, and most knife magazines don't last five years. And we've or I'm sorry, most magazines don't last five years, and we've lasted 50. So uh it's it's you know, we've I've been blessed to be uh my n to have my name uh uh uh mentioned along with Blade because that's it's it's not me, it's Blade magazine that's that that is the kingpin.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yeah, that's uh it's it's uh uh endearing uh how humble uh you are in in the context of what you guys do as a team and whatnot. Um and I I'm interested uh to talk a little bit about like the industry and and kind of things that you see uh happening in it and where maybe you think the next five, ten, fifteen years uh like what what that looks like. Uh because you know, like s at the when the the internet came around uh was a different story for you know people in the guild and people with the knife shows and things. And I know that like a blade and blade uh show have had to endure uh those shifts, but then we also have social media, and then we also have the kind of toppling of social media towards the knife industry, especially because of you know weaponry. I'm using air quotes there. Where do you where do you see the like the next five to fifteen years and what are you guys uh like as an organization trying to do uh to help uh you know bolster the knife community?

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Well, that's uh I I I can't really uh make a claim that I know what's going to happen. I think one of the things, of course, I think the uh forged in fire thing is one of the best things that ever happened to the knife industry. More people now are aware of uh forged knives than ever before by far, or just that knife, custom knives in general. That's one of the main things I always had uh problems with was people would come to me and go, I mean, people make knives for a living. And I was going, yep. And uh it's uh it's interesting that you know a lot of people think also come to me and say, How do you come up with story ideas? How do you fill that thing, that magazine up? And I just say, the problem is not the the I which ideas to pick, it's which ones to leave out because there are just so many different stories. But uh I guess one of the things that look one of the directions the industry appears to be going right now is uh custom knife makers getting more into the factory end. Of course, that started, it's been going on for a while, but I guess Ernie Emerson was one of the first who started Emerson Knives Inc. after being a custom knife maker. Uh and and it just seems like others uh are jumping in, getting their feet wet. Josh Smith with the Montana Knife Company now, I think he's been going for about four years, and he's going gangbusters. He's uh he's he's uh he really knows how to handle the media. Uh I just saw where he was on Hucklebeat, Huckabee the other night night, the uh uh Huck Governor Huckabee's talk show on uh one of the channels there, TBN or whatever. But uh he's been he hangs out with Chris Rock. He went and he made knives for President Trump. Uh he's just all over the place. He's all over the map, and he's makes some great looking knives. And I look for that kind of maybe to be a trend down the road because you never know what's going to happen with the uh factory knife companies. When I first came in, the big names were like Schrade and uh Camillus and uh uh Guttman was a was a big name back then. Gutman's gone. Uh Schrade and Camillus both went out of business. Their names were uh, you know, the rights to their names were bought by other companies. But the original Schrade and Camillus, which started out, or you know, they went out of business. And Schrade was making, at one time, I think it was, oh God, it was uh like a hundred thousand knives. Uh I don't know if it's a week or a day or whatever, but it was some unbelievable number. And uh so knife companies are going to kind of come and go. Uh, so it's gonna be interesting to see what's gonna replace them. And I think outfits like Josh with Montana Knife Company is that's gonna that's one of the uh ways the future of the industry is headed. So, but I think uh forged knives uh are gonna are going to continue to be hot, high-tech knives, tactical knives kind of seem to come and go, but they never go away. They always come back. So uh they'll be around. Uh I don't know. It's uh it'll be interesting to see where the publications go because I don't know if you know some publications are going straight digital. And uh right now we're staying print, but that could change too. You just you don't know where what's going to happen down the road in that regard either. So it's wide open. And the future is really promising, and uh uh I look forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Yeah, uh something that I thought about when you were talking about uh Josh Smith. I mean, the the f the finger that he has on the pulse of the industry and how he can supply that with uh you know these what I would really consider kind of semi-production, right? I mean, he has a great team of people that all believe in the same goal of quality and um efficiency, and he's really being disruptive in that small production type of realm. But what I also think about is um the the grandfather's knife, like the slip joint, I I think has seen a resurgence. Because I was looking back through uh I bought every five years of uh of the knife publication um to see kind of what the trends were like in uh a bunch of different mediums. And slip joints uh back in the 80s seem to be mostly made by a few makers consistently. There's some people that you know rose to prominence in publication and then fell off and are no longer makers. Uh but the the slip joint resurgence and the popularity with like GEC and other uh other manufacturers, and then also the custom world seems to be a really hot thing right now.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

It has it has been actually for quite some time. Of course, the South uh Texas slip joint cartel, uh headed by Bill Ruppel, has had a massive influence on it. Tony Bose, of course, he influenced RuPaul, and now RuPa is influencing his guys at uh in the South Texas slip joint cartel. Uh Bubba Crouch, uh Toby Hill, uh uh Tom Ploppert, uh just some outstanding uh knife makers. Uh so the yeah, the slip joints have been hot. There are others outside the South Texas slip joint cartel, uh Jim Dunlap. Uh uh there's uh any number of outstanding slip joint makers. Evan Nicola Nicolaites. I I'm I don't think I'm pronouncing his in fact, I saw where you interviewed him on here not too long ago.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah, Nicolaitis.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Nicolaitis. Uh he makes a fantastic slip joint. Oh my God. He's won several awards at our uh our Blade shows at uh Texas and Atlanta too, I think. Uh uh Luke Swinston is another member of the South Texas slip joint cartel. I saw where you interviewed him.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Um he's on my short list, too.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Tim Robertson, he's gonna be doing a seminar for us uh at Blade University on how to make a lockback Whittler, which I'm I'm gonna sit in on that one myself. Uh but uh yeah, slip joints uh are hot, have been hot for some time, so I I don't see them cooling off anytime soon either. Chef's knives are have been been hot. Uh uh, of course, the Forge knives, Mosaic Damascus, it's everywhere on knives. Um it's it's you know, it's it's always changing. And of course, the main thing is to find a maker that makes is is a good maker, can fill orders on time, uh makes good knives at decent prices, and the the maker who can do that is is that is the maker who will always have success.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah, and also get them uh photographs so that way they can help you out with the publication, right? There you go. Yeah. Well, I I've said that for a while. It's like, you know, you need you need to do professional photography. And and I know it's hard sometimes with a a knife maker to spend, you know, $200 on a on a photograph, but really that's that's the investment that you make in trying to you know proliferate the fact that you you know you're in it to win it and you really want to uh have the exposure.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

So Yeah. The pro photographers, they just the double exposures, the multiple exposures they do that show all the angles of the knife in one image is just uh I I can't stress how important that is to an uh up-and-coming knife maker to have that kind of work done on that on their knives because uh it just it adds legitimacy to your knives, and uh, you know, it shows you shows people uh exactly what it is that you're doing. And they're the those uh professional photographers, the job they do, I I cannot uh stress enough how important that is to individual knife makers and the future of the industry in general.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yeah, well, so for all the makers that are listening here, from the horse's mouth, get your knives phot uh photographed as by professional photographers.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Yep, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Um so um I want to talk a little bit about uh the award process because you know what I've I've noticed is that there is a lot of pomp and circumstance around the award process. Um and may and I've I've noticed like with Evan uh Nicolaitis and uh slip joint cartel collectively and whatnot, you know, all of these guys are are really pushing themselves in their shops in order to produce things that are you know unique, that set them apart, but then also um ups the ante for what we consider um you know award-worthy knives. Um can you talk a little bit about the award process itself and how uh you know not only uh Blade Show uh runs those things, but how uh Blade magazine supports that?

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Well, yeah, we uh uh we have like 16 uh custom knife awards. Actually, we just added some factory or knife of the year awards. We just added uh some to them, and that's at uh increased their number to 16 as well. But uh, you know, it's it's categories that uh uh we think cover pretty much what's popular in the industry now. Uh Damascus, uh slip joints, uh fixed blades folders, uh, you know, anything that uh fighters, uh and we try to cover all the everything. If if we don't have if we don't have the category, we have the best of the rest. We assemble some of the top custom collectors uh to help judge, and also knife makers. Uh we've had knife makers, uh Jared Oser, uh Jim Rodeball, and other uh knife makers. Les Robertson, custom knife purveyor, he's helped us judge in the past. He's an excellent judge. Uh and and these guys know knives, they know what to look for. They they can see flaws that the normal eyes do not pick up. They know what uh what's hard to do and what's not. And so that's a key to to the the the great judges that we have. And they're, you know, these guys that are entering these contests, they know they they better enter some good stuff or, you know, they're not going to have a a chance at all. One thing I would like to add, you know, not all knife makers enter these competitions, and that's not there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of the knife makers they've either won a a bunch of awards and just don't want to get into it anymore or it's just, you know, that's just because you haven't won an awards doesn't mean you don't make a great knife. And uh so that is one thing I wanted to add. But I I think entering competition the competitions is good. I think it help helps keep the makers sharp uh pardon the pun and and you know on top of their game. And they see and when they're in those uh rooms you know they have to lay their knives down and they can see up close all these other knives in there. The judging room at the Blade Show, there's like usually over 200 knives in there. And it's amazing to see that much talent in one room. Uh and it's a real uh eye-opener and learning experience. I'm lucky lucky enough to just be a like the overseer while they're in there judging. I can watch if they have any questions about judging rules or whatever, I answer those, but uh I you know I listen to them and record them, do a story usually recap afterwards. So it's it's educate highly educational for me as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Yeah I uh I can't imagine what that experience would be like and I'll I'll use a uh um reference point uh knife purveyor um you know website uh Paul Farina um you know purveyors like that that uh you know will will buy knives and um display them I've always thought like when you look at that it's a time capsule right of all these great knife makers and instances where um you know magic was happening like the cream of the crop when it comes to knife makers and what they've created. And you get to see that live every every knife show that you're doing awards and that has to be an incredible experience just to see how how times are changing and what people are bringing to the table pun intended in this case. And and to me that seems really cool. Like I I I highly encourage it. You know I I know uh kind of speaking to that um something that Alicia has really been pushing is so that way you know at the show everybody knows what time and place to go to submit all their knives because a lot of knife makers uh are so uh you know obsessed with uh being at their tables and speaking to customers and whatnot uh that they forget to actually submit them for uh awards so um you know and j and judging. So I want to encourage everybody if you're a knife maker and you want to try out for these uh uh these awards you need to actually take your knives please listen to Alicia and go to where you need to at the time uh so that way you can you know contribute your work towards it.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Definitely yeah the uh in in fact uh what at this year's show it we just have uh uh of course our show program we have all the information in there but like this year it'll be on Friday at 330 the the those exhibitors who want to enter would just uh make an announcement and they bring their knives to the room there room 104 in the Cobb Galleria we don't accept any knives after 4 o'clock and the judges judge from like 4 to usually about 530 or so it takes them about an hour and a half or so but uh it's uh it's pretty good it we uh most of the makers uh don't have a problem with getting it there on time our loudspeaker system in the blade show is not the best in the world but most of them they know when that if they want to participate they know when the judging is so by the way you're done by Paul Farina if anybody goes to the blade show and uh Paul is set up there and I'm pretty sure he is go go to his table and check out his the knives you talk about an all-star Hall of Fame array of custom knives I I looked at his stuff at the Texas show and it was totally awesome. Ron Lake, Jim Schmidt, Buster Warinsky uh uh and other makers that people may not know is uh that well but are excellent like Barry Davis and some others that uh uh it was really uh fascinating to look at the quality of the the knives he has in the in his collection.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Yeah and uh I I I got to talk with him uh uh a few times I think uh uh the the lady that he works with is at Ashley I can't remember exactly uh but uh she she does a lot of the procurement and stuff too um but it's interesting to me like uh Paul's backstory with uh you know his uh father was in uh HVAC and everything in in Boston and then he by by extension took that you know some some some of that wealth I guess uh and uh turned it into the knife industry that he's uh um helping to proliferate in these uh collectibles. I've looked on his website it's a very beautiful website too and everything's listed out you know wonderfully uh to me it's like a work of art in being able to take what he shows at at his table and then see that after the fact and invest in the in in those pieces. So and a lot of really great uh new knife makers as well as some great antiques too. Yeah he he's in fact he's been a judge for us uh for us at on at least one occasion he really knows the subject uh great guy uh very personable and uh you know just another one of our uh many industry all-stars yeah I think it's great to have uh arrows in the quiver uh that are all promoting uh that kind of aesthetic and and uh zeal for the craft um to me you know if you're talking about the slip joint cartel like that's one thing that I'm uh I think that Bill Ruppel has done a really great job of is every show I go to every one of those guys that absolutely can go is at every show and they're always at their tables and they're always uh proliferating. And it doesn't matter whether they sell out or not they're not the kind of knife makers they're going to bounce after they sold. They're going to sit there and be a part of the show and you know talk to the to the showgoers and and really invest in that you know entire experience.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

Yeah the the those guys it's it's a trip just to stand there at the table and listen to them uh uh uh dig at each other they they love to uh cut each other down in a good good nature good natured way and it's really funny uh to to hear them do it they uh of course they're all how very talented and uh and give each other down the road all the time about their knives but you could tell they all respect each other and uh are just outstanding slip joint knife makers.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Yeah I've I've I've heard of sometimes it's like man with friends like these who needs enemies. Yeah exactly it's yeah they are funny yeah absolutely and uh and uh uh very willing to help anybody uh as makers learn the craft too I mean I I can't tell you like uh Tanner Tanner Couch I've asked him a tons of questions uh Tim Robertson and I are good friends and he's taught me a lot in slip joints like what what I know uh from slip joints I used to have to kind of peruse books and go online and and try to research stuff and then fast tracked by asking them some questions like very direct questions and they just are like a wealth of knowledge. I I I often find that they're the encyclopedia I go to uh to try to figure out things and they're they're on many groups online and Facebook and whatnot to to help out. So I mean I think a very generous group especially with their knowledge and with their time. Yeah Tanner is uh uh he's really a talented maker I I've seen some of his stuff here lately where he uh uh has been making uh uh uh slip joints uh for for you know gun purposes and uh with gun tools on them and and that kind of thing which you don't see a lot of and these guys they kind of delve into different areas that uh uh they all seem to have their own little talent or thing they thing they like to do and they're always trying to outdo the other and it it's a a great uh way uh not just to uh have a great knife club but to improve the quality of knives in that club yeah for sure um I want to talk a little bit specifically about uh this year's uh Blade Show Atlanta and anything that you might want to bring up you know you talked uh a little bit about uh Tim Robertson's class in Blade University but um I obviously I want to give you the opportunity to speak to anything that you want to highlight uh because you know we are really kind of on the doorstep of uh Blade Atlanta.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

Yeah it's just you know it's an international event we're going to have knife makers from 35 different countries which uh uh that includes us at the United States of course but uh uh the wealth of international talent that comes to the show is just mind-boggling Michael Walker's coming uh probably quite possibly the greatest knife maker living uh of course all the slip slip joint guys will be there the uh slip joint cartel or Blade University we have Tim doing the lockback whidler course um we've got classes on uh grinding knives uh how to run a knife business uh Laron Thomas will be there to do something on uh a class on uh thermal thermal cycling steel for high performance uh Niels Vandenberg of South Africa will be there for uh doing his class on uh symmetrical key on daggers uh grace horn will be there for a class on how to make scissors she makes some of the um most beautiful scissors I've ever seen in my life by the way uh oh absolutely it's we've just got a great uh we'll have the ballet song competition Lucas Cow uh we'll be there squid industries that they that really gets the kids involved uh we'll have the blade sports cutting competition uh run by Donovan Phillips and that's always uh highly entertaining especially now that we got the the women the women's division that has been going on several years and uh uh they're more actually seem more competitive than the men a lot of times we'll have our awards competition or awards presentation saturday night our hall of fame induction saturday morning uh Ted Dow um oh heck who else is going in drawing Don Fogg and Bill Harsey are going in so that's uh Steve Schwarzer will be inducting uh Don Fogg Ted Dow's son Jeff will be there to induct him and uh Curtis Avito of Spartan Blades and and and Tim Reeve of Chris Reed Knives will induct Bill Harsey. There's so much stuff going on it's just nonstop the the pit at night is crazy it's nice to visit with everybody there and uh have a uh a refreshment or two and uh you know it's just it's the most it's the best three days of knives in the year every year. It's just wall-to-wall knives and when you go out of there you're just exhausted.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

It's it's really a fantastic event yeah it's uh it's interesting um you know I I've done a lot of local shows I've done uh Atlanta um and Blade Show Texas I have not made it to West yet um but you know I I've heard really great things about that but I think that people don't understand the total scale of just everything that goes on at a humongous show and convention like that and it is uh it is like mecca for the knife uh to the knife maker and the knife collector.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Trevor Burrus Yeah Atlanta is just it's just it's hard you have to experience it. Texas and the uh Utah Blade Show West are outstanding knife shows and they're growing by leaps and bounds bounds and I really look forward them to uh maybe even one day one day uh be alongside the Blade Show but right now the Blade Show in Atlanta it's just it's what it's all about it's just collectors, uh young, old, international, uh locals, people from all everywhere uh sharpening equipment, uh knife making equipment, uh materials, it just everything that has to do with knives is there and you just see so many people and legends of the industry I just you know I can't can't uh of course one person that uh won't be there this year that I'm gonna miss is uh Joy Slitori of Spiderco. She was their PR director she's been a rock of the industry for decades and she's retiring and she won't be there. Her last day is June 1st so I I know there's a lot of people in the industry who know her and uh if if you want to say goodbye you better do it quick because she's going to ride off into the sunset and enjoy her life. But boy she has been a godsend to Spider Co and the industry.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

Yeah that's all that's all really incredible. Something that I wanted to bring up and it's not necessarily a um well it's it's just a a comment more for me. There are times like I I have a a child who's uh was bored with a congenital heart defect, had a heart transplant, right? And sometimes I can't actually make it to uh the shows. I I can tell you personally that if uh if Blade Show ever decided to to get a you know group of people to video and either live stream or record um the events, um I would pay money almost as much as the ticket price, if not the that amount to actually be able to see all that and witness it, especially the award ceremonies. Like I I always uh I always end up seeing when the award ceremony happens and then everybody uh posts their awards up on social media, that's when I actually get to see it. But if you guys ever think about that, I would love to be included when I can't go um because I have to you know be homebound of sorts uh to be able to experience that as well. I mean I just it's something that I always look forward to seeing after the fact if I can't go and I always try to make Texas because it's right down the road from us. But you know just it's a wonderful uh celebration of knives and I you know I I appreciate you being the the person who highs all these people together and really encourages and espouses it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Well basically I'm uh when it comes to running the Blade show that's Alicia she is the one who does the work all I do is uh uh help with the uh seminars and come up with some ideas for Blade University. My main job is promoting the show beforehand through Blade and afterwards really throughout the year. We pretty much that's that's what one of the main functions of Blade magazine is to promote our shows and keep them in the public eye year-round. So people are always thinking about them and talking about them. But when it comes to setting that show up the massive job of uh arranging the tables and uh everything that's Alicia Newton. So uh a lot of people come up to me and go, they think I run the Blade Show. Nothing could be further from the truth. I run Blade magazine but not the Blade Show. So that's that's Alicia.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Yeah uh yeah I think uh if anybody's interested last uh late August early September I'd interviewed uh Alicia and really learned to appreciate just how uh just how m involved she is and how much she does. I mean she's really like a a Wonder Woman in inside of uh Blade Show. And so if any if anybody ever gives her guff be kind to Alicia because she really is like she's really the one that is trying just her hardest to make everybody happy and she uh she deserves she deserves an award each year officially just for all the the headache that she puts up with from all of us. We're here well um uh Steve it's an incredible honor to get to talk to you I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule and um you know it's uh it's an honor to work with you and be able to promote you know all of your work and everything. I hope that uh you know we have the opportunity to maybe talk a little bit more uh sometime about the uh contents of uh you know greatest living knife makers and things but if uh for anybody who has not uh picked up uh Steve's book on the greatest living knife makers I got it and I I it when I have the opportunity at shows I will have those who are still with us um sign it for me. So it's kind of like my little autograph book as well as being able to just learn about some phenomenal knife makers.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

I've talked to some people who are doing that is a good idea to get them all to I think the only one who passed away Tony Bose passed away just before we we were going to press we considered pulling him out of it but at the same time we were going this guy was too great this would be an ultimate honor to keep him in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

So the rest of them are still alive so uh but yeah that's uh a great thing but I I want to thank you for having me on and uh uh what you do is a great thing I I've looked at your lineup of the people you've interviewed and uh this kind of service is great uh talking to old coots like me that have been around is you know it's a good thing to do to get that stuff on to get to to get it recorded before we're gone and uh my my hat's off to you uh Aaron for for doing this yeah well it is my pleasure and it's an honor like I I don't look at that as a job I really look at it as a duty uh to try to help uh record people's stories and their their their lives and knives um and knife adjacency um and uh you're one of those people I always think about uh you when I when I think about what I'm doing and it's you know it it really is great to be able to talk to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

Well same here and uh I w are you going to be able to come to the Blade Show?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

Uh not this year. I'm hoping to shoot for next year but I'll be at Blade Show Texas for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

Oh cool. Well that's June 7 through 9 everybody Cobb Galleria Center uh Atlanta Georgia come on down and enjoy the sharpest three days of the year.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

You heard it from the man himself well thanks Steve. Thank you thank you for listening to another episode of the Good Old Blades Podcast. Remember that you are loved and God bless