SPEAKER_01 0:21

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Good Old Blades Podcast. I am your host, Aaron LeVere, and I am joined by knife maker, motorcycle enthusiast, musician, artist, husband, dad, and grandpa Nick Huff. That's off your Instagram, buddy. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. As soon as I read it, I was like, oh, wait a minute, I recognize this. Yeah, how about that? Somebody does their research. Yeah, so uh I wanted to have uh Nick on the podcast, not only because I love him, he's a super great guy, uh, but because I've been uh really interested in his work, his association with uh knife making and uh his touch on the Hollywood side, um, his like just everything about him. I mean, he's an enigma and uh um uh jack of all trades. And I really uh think, Nick, that over the last what four or five years that we've known each other, um we're pretty much a hop, skip, and a jump away from each other. And I've gotten at least a uh a side seat to what you've been doing with knives, and I've just I've I've been really proud of you and the stuff that you've been doing. So like thank thanks for coming on the podcast.

SPEAKER_06 1:29

Man, it's my pleasure. I I I'm stoked to be here. To be honest, I hadn't um seen a lot of your uh episodes yet, and uh I need to delve into that and see what see what that's all about. I'm definitely down to you know dig deeper into the knife making, the dudes that are doing the knife making.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

So yeah, well, you know, at the at the end of the day, um what I wanted to do with the podcast is just get people like yourself on and talk, you know, because uh the the good thing is that you've done uh a lot of social media work uh in videos and being present for knife shows and you have like this little documentary uh excerpts and stuff that you've done too. And so people get to see you, hear you, kind of get a little glimpse of of what you're like. Um but for a lot of knife makers, man, you you almost never you don't know what they look like, or their social media presence isn't really great. Um, and you don't know what their story is. And you know, out of out of all the knife makers I've known um and had friendships with, uh yours is like I could probably have multiple episodes where we just talk about one avenue of your life. So whatever we get whatever we get done here, um just know that there's a lot more uh about you that I'm sure that we could cover. Uh I ask a bunch of probative questions and then we spend three hours on a podcast. This is not Joe Rogan.

SPEAKER_06 2:51

I've done that, I've done that a couple of times. I've done a couple of podcasts that were, you know, pretty long form, some long interviews, so yeah. But you know, I mean I'm 54, so I've done a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:04

You know, that's one of the that's one of the things that I've done a lot of stuff. And I still do a lot of stuff. I mean, I play in a band. Uh you know, I make knives and do all that. I've tattooed for 20 years and I don't I don't do that anymore, but um, you know, the art side of tattooing and stuff, I'm still super interested in all that stuff. So yeah, I keep busy, trying to have fun. But I can tell you something, man, I can tell you a secret, and it's funny because you mention like other knife makers and other people, you know, you don't know them, you don't know who they are. Um it's funny because every once in a while, and I've I've just learned all this on my own, but um, you know, I I got a couple of friends that have social media, and I tell them like tattoo artists are really bad about this. They'll just have you know hundreds and hundreds of pictures of tattoos. But I mean, you walk in the shop, you don't know what who that dude is, like at all, you know, and I tell I've done this to Dan. I told him, like, put a picture of yourself on there. Just put a picture of yourself on there. And he actually he's like, Man, you know, like that actually gets me a lot of a lot of hits, and a little you know what I mean? Just the interaction where people want to see uh I mean to be honest, that you know, people want to see who they're you know, who they're buying from.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

You know, so well, and I I think uh people in social media really want the uh they want celebrity, right? They want to be recognized by people, but they don't they don't understand sometimes uh the commitment it takes uh to find find uh uh what is the the mode that you get presented on the best, right? So for me, I'll I'll post up work stuff and s and things on social media, but to be honest with you, a person learns a lot more about me through the way that I ask questions and do this podcast. And so as much as you know, as much as I might share online or don't share, um, I think that you probably get a better picture of who I am on a consistent basis through here versus me doing um social media stuff. And and it mostly just comes uh to the fact that I am really bad about social media consistency. And like it's just man, I the the first thing I don't think about is like waking up and taking pictures of my stuff or uh talking about things, you know, and with my life, knives are knives are part-time, right? Right, right, right. Uh you know, I I I say part-time because it seems like it's full-time at times. Um and I'm I'm always involved in knives, but I'm not always out in the shop making stuff actively and presenting that. So, like if you want a picture of who I am, you really have to kind of um you gotta find where I'm the most consistent at, and really the place is the podcast. But I mean, uh, you know, I I want to talk a little bit about like how we met and kind of uh some of my observations, and I want to uh then talk a little bit more about your journey that got you two knives. Uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:09

Let's get into it. And uh I want to I'd I'd love to hear like uh the other aspects of of how I'm perceived, however, people see what I do and stuff, you know. I mean I try to be pretty transparent with everything I do, you know. That's the that's kind of the key to the whole thing. Um to be honest, there I've I've shown I've probably showed you this before, but there's a uh there's a TED talk where uh this cat talks about how you know why people buy from a certain company or why they have loyalty to a certain company. Hey bud, mama tell you so uh but it talks about the how, the why, you know, all that stuff, and the real crux of it is that people buy from you for the why. I I I I just saw a thing recently about um where people had to give like their mission statement, you know, you have to give your mission statement, and uh, you know, that's really what it's about is my mission statement is about you know my life, just about having a good time, about enjoying myself, about living, and uh you know the uh the the being open on the on the you know showing what I do and being transparent and all that stuff, you know, that's easy for me because it's just it's just who I am, you know what I mean. And I've just honestly part of it's learned though too, because I used to kind of be in a shell and you know had issues with you know public speaking and and all that kind of stuff. Uh but with anything else or just practice, you know, helps with that a lot. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yeah, well, I mean, on branding, it's kind of like you know, we're we're talking about different kinds of businesses, right? Like um there's there's not collectors of IKEA furniture.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

Right, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:12

And so and so their missions, their mission statements different. It's like we're going to uh make um one might argue not really uh very easily uh assembled uh uh um like furniture at a at a decent price and make it accessible to everybody. And that's that's the that's their claim. And so if people like go to IKEA and purchase their stuff, it's because they align with those business statements, right? Right. But with the with collecting, like you know, the story of uh GEC or um case or any of those uh uh companies, K-Bar, like they they have a story and uh and an ambiance behind them, and even in a production sense, people are buying from them because of their legacy or because of their history.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Because of who they are, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

And it's no different in than in in knives, where you're really wanting to use your money to support people that at least have an ideology or a a product that represents something that they admire.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

And so it makes it really difficult if when you're branding yourself that nobody ever knows what that actually is. Right. And so I I at least in my experience, um I've I've always thought that who you get online with uh Nick Huff is actually only a small portion of the depth of who you are as a person. And I don't believe that well, and I don't mean that in a bad way because I loved you, like I I loved your work. Um I thought that you were really charismatic, you were knowledgeable and everything, and very personable. And then when I went met you in real life, you're like a larger than life entity in person. Right and I'm and I'm not I'm not just blowing smoke, like I really do admire you. And um I appreciate that. And so, like if you think if anybody listening to this thinks uh that Nick's work is is up your alley and everything, just remember there's a lot more to him when you get to actually talk to him uh you know one-on-one and and see all the different stuff that he's into, that um you you are actually investing uh an awful an awful lot in a person that just uh really you're you are taking your knife making and your experiences and everything to a different level. And that's what I appreciate about you.

SPEAKER_06 10:36

Right. I'm supporting my family with it, so you know it's important to me to uh you know for one, to just be real and to be uh, you know, to be truthful about everything, or at least, you know, try to be out there and you know, present a product that's you know I can stand behind, and you know, and and and stand behind it once mistakes are made, because you know, the truth is that's the reality. Life is real, life is rough, you know, and not everything's perfect. So, you know, I make mistakes and uh you know I stand behind them and fix up what I need to.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

So yeah. Well, and I and I think one thing about uh your personality is that you're very thoughtful, right? It's not just I think the some I grew up in Iowa, that's part of it.

SPEAKER_06 11:24

All you all you have you know you I've talked, I've even said this on a podcast before, but people from Iowa, you can go to you can go to Home Depot and somebody'll like help you find all your stuff and help you, you know, check out and help you load your truck, you know, and then you turn around and look, and they're walking back in the store to go shopping because it was just uh, you know, some other I went in there that was like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Maybe it's the farming community, like you just have a whole lot of time in between corn and cows and things to think about ideology.

SPEAKER_06 11:58

Yeah, well, my mama raised me right too, you know. I my folks brought me up to you know not be a jerk, and uh although, you know, I spent a lot of time doing that. Um I spent a lot of time doing a lot of stupid things, but you know, I learned a lot from all that, so you know that's what's gotten me where I am also.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Well, I think that's that's one thing that's uh interesting about uh having many faces in in a lifetime, right? Is like when you when you transition from one period of your life to another, um you you you you change because if you're if you're on a trajectory to constantly reinvent yourself, then those past experiences, I mean, they either break you or they make you, right?

SPEAKER_06 12:47

Right, right. Well, I'm a slow learner too, so you know, I took I had lots of lessons that were like, you know, to beat into my beat into my skull. Yeah. I don't know why. I don't know why I was a slow learner on some of that stuff, but man, oh man, you know. Just it just like just literally just like being able to just go um go to go somewhere, just go to an event and not just like hide in the corner and hang out on your phone and not talk to anybody, you know, to like just get out there and present yourself. Because it you know people that do it well make it seem easy. But it's not always easy, even if it seems easy, you know what I mean? Um but it sure makes for a more enjoyable time, you know. And you definitely make better interactions, better connections with people. So that's kind of where I'm at, it's kind of where I'm headed now, you know. My whole thing is Mikey loves this. I mean, he loves it when I say this, but I'm like, you know, I'm not building knives, building relationships, you know. Building a life for me and my family and just enjoying myself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

So Yeah. Well, and I I think that you know, there's a lot of people that get frustrated with life because uh things don't things don't happen the way they they they want, or maybe they have an entitlement, like things though I should be I'm doing this, like it it's it should be working. But I I think that when you really analyze the fact that if you don't like an outcome, you gotta change the way that you're addressing something. Right. Um I don't like there's people that um I don't know, it's hard, it's it's a maturity thing, right?

SPEAKER_06 14:23

Like it was perspective, is a lot of it too. Yeah, you know, because to be honest, that's where the that's where a lot of my perspective has changed. It's just the fact that my belief is, you know, that I mean we're just bacteria on a rock. We're just hurtling through space, you know. I mean, think about how many, like, um how many close calls with with comets and stuff that we have. Um, there's more of them than we even realize, you know, there's there's some of them they don't even tell us about because they're you know there's there's just nothing to do with them. And there's fun, it's funny because you know, there's times I'm like in the grocery store and I'm just like, what if it happened right now?

SPEAKER_02 15:06

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 15:08

And but you know, by the same token, that also makes me like uh, you know, man, I have an odd philosophies. And then part of it's just risky. Part of it's you know, there's a commercial where the dude says, You're just cavalier with your finances, uh cavalier with your personal finances. Uh like I'm getting ready to leave for um Sturgis tomorrow night. And uh, you know, like I'm not in a position to go right now. I got stuff going on and I'm busy and the kids are getting ready to go back to school and stuff, but man, you know, not going is just almost not an option. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I'm gonna miss out on all the fun. Um, it'll be important and beneficial for just you know meeting people and and having uh meaningful interactions, you know, with people. Um again, a comic could hit tomorrow, you know, and it can hit in a week. And if I don't go, I'm just gonna regret not going. You know what I mean? Uh and and you know, a lot of even the knife making has been like that, where you know, I I've had my own little business, uh you know, tattooed for years and just, you know, I enjoyed that. Uh but the knife making was something new and it really like, you know, it really got in my head. So to be able to just transition and you know start doing knives full time because that's just that's how much I love, I knew that's where I was headed. Uh you know, I just had to make crazy sacrifices and stuff, but none of it seemed like sacrifices to to me, you know what I mean? It seemed easy. Uh it's the paradigm shift, you know, it's where your brain, you know, you've taken on all taken on a new uh you know, a whole new classification of where I'm at, of where my life is at, where I'm headed. And uh to be able to do that and enjoy what I do, but then still learn how to like, you know, live and enjoy life. Uh you know, that's just I mean that can't be you can't you can't pay for that. You know what I mean? So I'm I'm having the I'm having the best time. I really am having the best time. And it's so much fun. Uh I heard Dan talking about the other day. He and I argue once in a while about, you know, there's a saying, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. And uh it's funny because Dan's like, that's bullshit, because you work harder than anybody. You know, he's like, you work, you do real work. And I'm like, you know, I do, but and I love it, you know, I love every minute of it. Uh I just I just can't get enough of it. So, you know, and it and it affords me to be able to, you know to live. Enjoy and force me to be able to hang out with my family and spend time with my family, you know, and that's you know, that's more important than any almost anything. So uh Yeah, it's just absolutely a blast.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yeah, I've I've worked in a lot of different things in in my life so far, and I I have to say, like, working it for yourself is one of the most terrifying and reassuring things that you can do. Right? Because uh you know, if you if people want to be a master of their own destiny, they have to realize that your nose is always the closest to the grindstone. Because it like going back to if you don't see the results you want, uh you have to change it, is it really you have to you have to learn what pivoting is. Like if this thing's not working, I have to do something else because if I don't, then the bills don't get paid, my kids don't eat, you know, so on and so forth. And um the good thing about that, I think, is that once you really um get comfortable with working for yourself, that you you you can start opening up a lot of doors that are just not available to you on like the nine to five. Right, right. Because you know, for a portion, like for a large portion of your life, you're beholden to another person to tell you exactly what it is that you're gonna do. And you get your little widgets out of it and they pay your bills and everything, but then you're just you're just a widget producer. And I mean, I'm I'm one of those guys, like I I had I got a kid with a heart condition, and she requires widgets to pay for the for the an enormous amount of things that she needs widgets for. So, you know, the freedom to make knives and a motorcycle and and all those things, th that kind of dream of freedom does not exist in the world that I live in. But I also wouldn't trade the stability that I can provide my wife and kids for anything because of that. But like I admire people like you because you like you every day that you can do what you do is a success story for the kind of person um that is a a full-time knife maker, right?

SPEAKER_06 20:12

Right, right, right, right. Well, also every day you wake up is just you know, I mean, you got another chance to to rock and roll and you know, to do it again. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Well, kind of uh on that note, I want to pivot uh back to uh how we how we met and uh talk a little bit about uh you know you. But um, so I think it was maybe it was about four or five years ago. Uh you had posted up on on Instagram is where I saw you that you were looking for a an apprentice uh to help you at the shop because you were doing you're doing those uh production cowboys or the very first.

SPEAKER_06 20:52

Right. So yeah, my I I do my my custom knife list is you know the the the lead time has grown out so long that yeah, it was I was to a point where I needed to add, you know, somebody to help me uh produce, you know, uh a more cost effective knife, you know, whatever you want to call it, uh a version that you know more people could get, and it just put more knives out there. Um and provided was hopefully to provide knives, you know, that someone could go and buy in the meantime, you know, as they were waiting on the on the wait on the wait list, or if they just didn't want to wait, you know what I mean? So Yeah, and I to be honest, I was surprised to even get to that point, you know. And that was a that was a fun one because I met a lot of amazing people. I met um you know, I met a cat named Nick that uh, you know, he was a rad dude, he came by a few times, you came by and you know, we talked, and that's how we met. You know, I got to meet Brian that way by l by looking for somebody. And then, you know, I met Mikey. Mikey and I Mikey stuck around, you know, Mikey's Kick and butt. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Well, and you know, like um, I think that we met at a time when we were both um so you were expanding uh into this production cowboy. Uh I I think that when I when I had met you, you had just gotten back your the water jets uh for the first run of the city.

SPEAKER_06 22:21

Right, like the first I think it was like the first batch was like 75 blades, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

And uh, and so we were talking and everything, and it was it was clear that the vision that you had for what you wanted an apprentice and the way you were taking your business was not uh compatible with the way that I thought about things. And um I you gave me a piece of advice because I'd been a knife maker for a few years at that point. Um and I was trying, I was just trying to figure out okay, what's the next thing? Like what how I how do I jumpstart this next thing from just making you know um knife-shaped objects to uh you know to getting more experience under my belt. And you said, hey, you like you're do your thing, right? And um and focus on on your trajectory, basically, right? Right, right. And I I I'm not gonna say I felt dejected. Um I I I looked at that as a, you know, there's the you're the first person in my knife making journey that really looked at me as as having my own story to tell through my knives.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

And and uh that's the way that I interpreted it. I mean, right, right, right, right. You you dole out a lot of advice and it's like stage. Um but I and and and I the way that I interpret it is like, you know, you're like, hey, like you're a person, you're a knife maker, you you like your ideas matter, take that and run with it. Like even if it doesn't work out between what we do, like you still should you know do your thing, right? Right, right, right. And and I took that to uh to heart, I think, because I'm I'm still in knives and I've done a lot of different stuff. Uh but you know, um that that was impressionable to me because I really I really think it was the first time I thought, hey, like I could I I can do more than just uh be a good wingman to somebody else, right? Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 24:18

Um and not like Well, you were the first person that came to me that was a knife maker. You know what I mean? I mean I had other people that came to me that were just, you know, they they wanted to learn and they whatever, but you know, I mean, when you came to me, I considered you already a knife maker, you know what I mean? So, I mean, you had your own equipment, you'd made, you know, you you know how to make knives. And even at that time, you know how you knew how to make knives. So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:45

And it's a different just definitely a different ball game. And you and to be honest, you have a different style, you know, and your style was was worth, I thought, at least I thought you're worth your style was worth, you know, you're continue pursuing that, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Well, yeah. Yeah, and I uh you know, I don't think that I would have um wasted your time if I didn't think that it was something that like your style was not something that I I could have uh snapped into. But you know, I I kind of want to lead into that um after we get a little bit more into your your journey through things because um there's there there is uh some aspects about your knife aesthetic that I I want to expound on. Um but I do I do agree, like I I have a different style, like in in in my mind's eye, there are certain things that I've been chasing with knives uh that have just turned out to be me things, right? Right, right, right, right. You know, like there's there's just certain things, you know, in knives that everybody kind of says um this this is the aesthetic that I want to have or whatever. And regardless, like I I don't knock anybody for a another aesthetic choice. It's mostly just that there are things that in when I close my eyes and I look at something, um yeah, then there's just the way that I see it.

SPEAKER_06 26:03

And um there's a lot of dudes that wear cowboy hats, but you know, my cowboy hat looks different than everybody else's cowboy hat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yeah. I've always wondered like when you have to get a new hat, like how difficult is is it to actually find that thing?

SPEAKER_06 26:20

It's well the thing is, well, first of all, my hat is just a cowboy hat. So going to find a new a new cowboy hat, I got a my guy Lalo down at Fincher's Whitefront in the Sport Road stockyards. Um, you know, I just go down there and buy a hat. He steams the shape for me. And I build, you know, the hat band. And from there, to be honest, when I get a new hat, it's horrible because it's so there's they're so clean and they're so shiny and just you know, like so perfect. And uh, and to be honest, I it's not authentic to like go take it out in the shop and stomp on it and you know burn it and you know, rough it up, and like, you know what I mean? Like I just I can't fake it, you know what I mean? Yeah. So uh yeah, yeah. New hats are new hats are rough. But you know, that's kind of the aesthetic of everything in my life, you know, and that's that's where the knives end up the way they are, is just because I like, you know, like my my ultimate knife would be like a knife that you found in a barn, you know what I mean? I grew up in a small town in Iowa, um, you know, and just that whole like vision of you know an old knife, and you're like, oh check out this old knife, you know, like that's just I wouldn't want a shiny knife or a you know a perfectly, you know, perfectly, you know, shiny and you know, crisp. Like I just, you know, that's that part of it is not what's important to me. In fact, the fact that it's dirty, the fact that it's rusting, the fact that it's you know uh scratches on it, and it's you know, it's not perfect. That's kind of the aesthetic that I enjoy. You know. Uh it's funny because I got, you know, I actually um I made a knife for old Aquaman there, and I uh I wore his sheath around for a while just to kind of break it in some, you know. He's the same way he likes stuff to look old, but uh he doesn't always have the the same amount of time to you know to put into making his stuff look old. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Well, yeah, we'll we'll get into uh Jason Momoa uh here in a second. But you know, um uh well because I'm I'm interested in kind of like what he's doing, and uh you have several people that you're uh associated with that have also had Jason's eye. And so I I I kind of want to talk about that. Um but so you you grew up in Iowa and then at some point in time you made it down to Fort Worth, Texas, right? Was that the second? And uh what what brought you down here?

SPEAKER_06 29:15

Oh well, I uh got out of prison and I met this girl and you know, we started dating and moved in together, and she was crazy, and I was not equipped with the emotional skills or the social skills to you know just to be able to deal with she was crazy crazy, and uh so I packed up my stuff and just started driving and just ended up in Texas. So that was 31 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Yeah, yeah, it's uh Texas is a real hot place to uh go from the comfort of the uh the upper Midwest to uh the Midwest, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:04

Yeah, well, I mean that was part of it. It was I was tired of you know I when I moved down here it was in August. But you know, I when I I knew that going somewhere else, going south was gonna be, you know, I was just tired of dealing with winters. Winters, that's the thing is when people don't understand about winters, like especially in Iowa, is like you know, winters, you know, it lasts longer than obviously than it does down here in Texas. But the worst part is in the spring when everything's all dirty and slushy and nasty, and then it freezes at night, and it's a you know, it's just like a hellhole, and then the next morning, you know, it everything gets all your shoes are wet all spring. It sucks. You know, I was in high school in the 80s, man. Everybody wore, you know, the high top Nikes, you know, and the and man, you get your shoes wet. God, just ruin your whole morning. You know, walking to school. Yeah, that's rough. So yeah. Yeah, I was like, I uh you know, I knew the winters would be mellower down here, so it's part of what got me. And it's it's worked out well because you know, I met a Texas woman and we have a couple of kids together, and I I absolutely love Texas, and especially now that I ride, I mean, you know, Texas almost has a year-round riding season.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah, yeah, that's good. Um when uh when you initially moved down here, did you m move immediately to Fort Worth or did you like bumble around?

SPEAKER_06 31:28

Well, I mean, in the mid I was in the mid-cities, and uh when I first moved down, I moved to uh it's funny actually, the other day I went by there. Um so I I moved down here and I got just got a hotel room, and the next day I went and got a job at an apartment moving company and like started working that day. Um and when I got off work that night, you know, they would pay you for the day, you know what I mean? And I went that night and I got a uh monthly or a weekly room at the Jolly Roger Motel in Ulith. And uh the Jolly Roger used to have um their sign was a pirate ship, you know, and the sails it said Jolly Roger, you know, on it. Um it ended up that place, you know, they sold to the I think the West End apartments or what, you know, anyways, it moved something else. The other day I was over there like three weeks ago. They're tearing the building down, like that whole place is demolished now and gone, and you know, that's like my that was my first place. But yeah, I've been to Mid Cities, uh Fort Worth. I've always been like right around. Um I actually lived um like on the east side for a while. Um, and then the wife and I actually before we got married, we lived like in downtown, um you know, like west seventh area. Um remember where the grotto was down there on West 5th? We used to live right behind there.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Oh yeah. Yeah, so um when you moved down here, is that when you got into tattooing or had you been uh doing tattooing? No.

SPEAKER_06 33:06

No, I know I actually um no, I'm I was 23 years old when I moved down here and wasn't doing anything and uh got a job at Jiffy Loo and actually worked there for years, um like four years, four and a half years. Um and actually enjoyed that. It was a really good time. Uh met a bunch of cool folks. And uh you know, I was also playing in bands, you know, so I you know, I got a couple of bands started and was doing all that stuff and just enjoying Texas and uh uh actually when my wife and I met, we uh we met, we started dating, we went out and got tattoos, and uh the guy at the tattoo shop was like, How come you're not tattooing? You know, I had a few tattoos and I don't know. I got I don't know if he was looking for people or what, but uh yeah, I that's kind of what started that whole thing. And uh and I I mean I tattooed for 20 years professionally, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Um during the during the time that you were tattooing, what is what is uh your journey through tattoos look like? Um like what was your um what was your like tattooing aesthetic? Do you use mostly black and white or were you call it full color or kind of um I did it man, I did everything.

SPEAKER_06 34:18

Um I worked in you know, I didn't worked in shops that you know we did lots of walk-in, so you know, you had to do uh a little bit of everything, jack of all trades. Um I enjoyed mostly doing like uh you know graphic, uh bright color, you know, um, you know, really intense kind of stuff. Um, I mean I tattooed uh in a shop there in Hearst actually for for years. I learned to tattoo over there and tattooed there for a while and then uh tattooed in Fort Worth for a while in another shop, and then I actually ended up buying a shop and uh owing my own shop for seven years. But to be honest, I did not enjoy owning my own tattoo shop, you know. It kind of took the soul out of the tattooing, you know. I really enjoyed um tattooing and the people and then just the tattoo itself. Um but uh was I oh and then but yeah, like I said, I I didn't enjoy the uh you know owning a tattoo shop part. So I shut my shop down and uh went to work for troll for a few years. Um and then I ended up retiring from Bonehead Tattoo, which is actually the uh longest running tattoo shop in Fort Worth. Uh Bonehead Tattoo on Camp Bowie. Yeah, been there twenty-eight years, twenty-nine years now, something like that. So Cody Fuller owns that that place. Really rad spot.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

So yeah. Yeah, business ownership. Uh do you know uh do you know Billy Jack Gunter? A North Dallas location, the one in like Deep El Mario.

SPEAKER_06 36:01

Um, right on right on. Yeah, I don't I don't know. I don't know the name for that.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Yeah, I Billy Billy Jack came from somewhere up north, I think, and moved down here and then started doing tattoo shops. But you know, like uh tattoo shop ownership, you basically have to herd cats, which is a bunch of like a bunch of artists who are already flighty to begin with, and then deal with their egos, and then the fact that you're an artist and also have an ego, and I can uh um I haven't talked to him in quite a while, uh, but uh we used to uh he used to just like kind of shake his head and it's like I I don't know whether he appreciated the um artist ownership of uh of like tattooing or whether he just wanted to actually just you know do the art side of things.

SPEAKER_06 36:44

So you know, tattooing that's the thing too, is like tattooing has changed so much, you know, especially over the last you know 25 years. Um, you know, there's TV shows about it now. And it used to be that's it's funny because that's one of Cody's favorite uh sayings is you know, oh you were on my lovely wife. Um yeah, so uh you know, tattooing used to be dangerous, used to be dirty, used to be, you know, it was criminals and you know drug addicts and the military. So yeah, but you know, yeah, that tattooing's definitely changed. And to be honest, man, I you know, I really enjoyed tattooing and a lot of fun, but I'm kinda glad I'm out of it. Partially just because of the the the life changes that I've had, you know, tattooings at night, and uh for years my wife worked in the day, I tattooed at night, you know, and we went years without seeing each other, so uh this affords me, you know, to be home more spend more time with my my wife and my kids, you know what I mean, and not just be gone every night. That's the thing too, is I went I worked every Friday and Saturday night for 20 years, you know. You work in a you work in a street shop. Friday and Saturday nights where the money's at, you know, that's where the big money's at.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Yeah. Well, and then we so you were tattooing and what what got you into knife making?

SPEAKER_06 38:25

Well, uh so I played a band called FGW and the guitar player, you know, we've known him for years, uh he also tattoos. And we worked together for years. Well, he was having a birthday coming up, so I thought I'm gonna get him a birth you know, a knife for his birthday, because I knew uh my buddy Terry Shanks makes knives. But I was like, well, if I'm gonna get him a knife, I you know I'm gonna get me a knife too. So I talked to Terry and I got a couple of knives ordered up and uh man, it was it literally was a a shift the moment he handed them to me, like he put them in my hand and it just you know everything changed right there. Uh I just couldn't believe that he had taken a piece of steel and like through like you know, with fire and heat, you know, you're able to like manipulate the molecules to change its state, you know what I mean? Yeah. And to make it into something else. And then, you know, shaping it and finishing it out, you know, it was just like I was just blown away by it. And the fact that it's, you know, arguably one of man's first tools, you know what I mean? Like it's one of the first things that that man created, you know, to be able to survive or to be able to survive better. Um you know, and it's just kind of crazy to think about you're like, you know, I to be honest, you mentioned earlier something about like um collecting, and I Bob Loveless used to say that uh, you know, the knife maker doesn't get to decide whether a knife is used or collected, you know what I mean? Um you just make it and put it out there, the customer decides that. Um, but I you know, I sure hope people are using my knives, you know. It's kind of what the knives that I try to make are knives so that people will use them.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yeah. I uh one of my biggest regrets from knowing you is that I didn't get on the books for one of your Huckleberry buoys uh before before you were like five years out on your list. Because that's like if I look at that knife, like I saw yours that you carried and you you let me uh handle it. And I have to say, it's just like one of the like it's it's my knife, like it's my kind of knife.

SPEAKER_06 40:43

Like if yeah, it's my favorite knife. Yeah. I mean it is. I still carry it every single day. Um but one of the things when I started making knives, that's one thing that I I wanted to be able to do was to be able to do the leather stacked handles, and you know, and this one to have a saber grip leather stack and just you know, to be able to accomplish that. And just the knife itself, like it's kind of fits my you know, my my overall aesthetic. Like, I'm not a cowboy, I wear a cowboy hat, but I'm not a cowboy, you know. Um, I'm just a dipshit kid from a small town in Iowa, you know what I mean? Um I like to pretend I'm a cowboy, I like to do cowboy shit, um, you know. Uh and it's funny because even when I'm out riding my motorcycle, that's all I can think about is you know how the cowboys travel, how people travel on horseback to explore and to, you know, that's some pretty wild stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

So yeah. Well, I mean, no, I I totally agree. I uh I have a tumultuous relationship with uh motorcycling because my my um right right before I was born, my uncle uh died on a motorcycle, and uh and uh then like my mom kind of she was a little bit leery about that. I mean she had a motorcycle when she was a kid and everything, but I yeah, I knew yeah, when uh I never got an opportunity really to ride other than like moped stuff. I had a few of those. Um and then uh you know I kind of just got into responsible mode where you know like I I don't know, like my prefrontal cortex, I think was developed out a little bit sooner than the 25 age. But so then uh, you know, I was going a little wild, and I was like, you know what? Like I was you know, going through a divorce, I was like, you know what, motorcycle sounds cool. Like I'm gonna like look at it and everything, you know, got a uh started dating my wife now, um, you know, remarried and uh and then my stepson died on a motorcycle four years ago, which is you know the uh Levier and Son knife code name. And uh I don't know that like if I'd ever decided to like do like get into motorcycles uh again like that, um it would probably be uh the most selfish thing I could do because my wife has such a uh um a hard time with it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

One of her best friends, like a neighbor that was a best friend uh to her growing up, also, I guess he hit some uh debris that was on a an exit ramp and uh and died that way. So I don't know. It's like it's weird because like it with motorcycles, um I appreciate and I think that most people who understand the culture like understand that that is uh probably one of the most free forms of uh of propulsion, you know, that you can have. Right, right. It's like the the oh yeah, you you you listen to highwayman or something like that, you're like, yeah, that's that's where it's at, right? It's that's freedom, that's freedom. Uh but then you know there's the other side of it too, where it's like there's every day you just don't know. And that's I think probably uh that's probably the

SPEAKER_06 44:00

And you know, Troll died on his forty-fourth birthday and he never rode a motorcycle.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:05

You know, you can get hit by a bus tomorrow walking across the street. You know what I mean? Like there's there's so many other things to be worried about or, you know, to be afraid of. Um that I just, you know, I don't let motorcycle, I don't let the fear of motorcycling deter me. Because that you do, you know, you're you're traveling 80 miles an hour down the road. It's real hard to not just like look down and be like, man, I built this thing. You know? Like, I'm the one that put this together. I'm the one that, you know. So yeah, but like I say, a comet could come out of nowhere. We can all be gone in a flash.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yeah. Yeah. And and I think that's one of the things about life in general is that there are so many things that uh you can be scared of. Um, I I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've been like hunting where I've had like really, really close calls with uh nature. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:06

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Uh I've been out in school.

SPEAKER_06 45:08

You go out in nature, you're gonna have close calls with it for sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

And and and I don't I don't know what about my mentality when I've been uh hunting and fishing, it's like you know, this is more the scales are even because you know I'm I'm just there with primitive tools and things like that, maybe a boomstick and a knife and and whatever, and and whatever I was able to backpack in. And somehow that's more safe than being on a motorcycle, but whatever that logic ends up being, it it's still like I I appreciate the the uh motorcycle culture, and I think that um something that I see in your knife aesthetic is that um when you're talking about um things that look like used, like somebody put themselves into it. Um that that's what I think of when I look at your knives.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

And um like there's only one way to get that that age or the patina, right? The provenance is what is like the provenance of uh a knife or other things that are used in ephemeral is that they have to actually be put to use in order to have it. Right, yeah, yeah. And so that's interesting to me. And you know, that's that's part of the concept uh that I I've noticed with uh so Jason Momoa, uh I've noticed he he's had you do stuff, Terry Shanks do stuff right, and then uh uh Neil Kamamura and uh and a few others. And it seems like um well the thing that I appreciate uh uh about him pulling in knife makers that uh uh that kind of align with his aesthetic is that he's really um elevating the handmade and handmade knifecraft to a different uh more visible level because you know if you think about it, like there's a lot of knife makers that have props and things like that that they fed into the industry over the over time. But uh Jason does a a good job, I think, of um of representing the makers that he collects or uses inside of what he how he expresses it, you know, in his social media and everything, he's not afraid to say, hey, like I'm gonna reach out and uh select people that I I want to you know use their their goods or whatever. And so that's it's always been interesting to me. Like, do you think that uh did you ever think that when you were uh good like developing your aesthetic and making knives and everything that that would be the trajectory that some of your work took is to be in Hollywood and everything?

SPEAKER_06 47:41

Oh no. Oh no, no, no, no, not at all. In fact, I mean it literally was just the opposite. It was like internal, you know, it was it was what makes me happy, you know. Um when I, you know, when somebody's like, oh hey, let me see that knife, you know, I like to pull out my knife and show somebody my knife and have it be, you know, gnarly and and you know, like it shows that it's been used, it shows that it's worn, it shows that it's you know that it's been around for a while, you know, it shows all that stuff. Um it's funny because people send me knives every once in a while. I'm sure you've had this happen. People send you a knife and they're like, oh, this was my you know, my uncle's K-bar. Um, can you like fix it up? And I'm like, Yeah, you know, zing zing, sharpen it right up. There you go. And they're like, oh no, no, no. I want to like uh like that, take that rust spot off, and you know that and where it's all dinged up on the spine right here, and it's like man, that's you know, that knife earned those badges, you know what I mean? It earned that look. And uh for me to just like sand that off of there, that's that's not what I want to do, you know. There are probably somebody else that will do it, but I don't want to do it, you know what I mean? And uh I guess that's you know, that just gets me back to where you know, once I get something looking old, I want it to look real, you know, I want to keep it looking old. So yeah. Well, I don't wash my pants, so I want to keep them looking old, you know.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Well, um uh yeah, I you think I'm joking. No, I mean I r I really don't. I know you well enough to know I I you gave me a pair of uh like Levi jeans at some point in time. I t I tell my wife they're my lucky jeans because like whenever I wear them whenever I wear them out in the shop, I always feel like uh like I'm I'm on point and I'm channeling my inner Nick Huff. But I'm I'm I'm glad I got to him before I'm glad I got to him before you started using them because they would have been torn up.

SPEAKER_06 49:51

No, I'll just tell you, I had no I had no idea that any of that kind of stuff would happen. And to be honest, every time something like that does happen, like every time I meet I mean I don't want to say like celebrities, but like I just you know I'm blown away by all the people I meet, you know, like I'm friends with you know people that that that that hardly anybody else knows, you know what I mean? Um and then you know I know other people that are celebrities, but it's it's just I don't know, it's weird because most of the time when I meet people like that, like meeting Jason Momoa, he was the most amazing dude. You know what I mean? Like if he wasn't if nobody knew who he was, you would still want to meet him. You know what I mean? You still want to meet him and hang out with him because he's just rad, you know. And uh it's funny because a lot of a lot of the people I meet that are celebrities or you know, famous or semi-famous, uh most of the time if I'm cool with them, it's because they're just such great people, you know. And that's I mean, that's really where it's at. So it's just meeting people and just you know, making the connections.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Yeah, well, and man, I think that uh at the end of the day, people who are popular are just people, right? Right, yeah, right. It's it's difficult because you have man, they get like Jason gets inundated with just so many people that want to be in his business all the time, right? Right? Yeah, it's nice. I'm sure it's nice for him to be around people that are uh just interested in being genuine people and not like what is that ulterior motive.

SPEAKER_06 51:33

Uh you know what Dying Bag Daryl used to say? What? They treat people famous people like they're normal. And treat normal people like they're famous. You know, I mean that's that's where it's all at, man. Everybody likes to hear their own name, you know. And I've made a really dude, I've been I'm so bad at it. So bad. I'm 54, and I'm so bad at remembering people's names. And to be honest, um this year in February, I went to Mama Tride, and for some reason I just had some sort of like shift where I was just like, I need to start remembering people's names, you know. Um a perfect example is there was a cat named Matt Stout. Um, the Stout boonybikes, he builds like uh mini bikes that are amazing. Um but I mean I knew Matt for like four years and saw him everywhere, you know, but he was I just I never remembered his name. You know what I mean? And like I was just like, man, this is ridiculous. Like I see this guy everywhere, all I know, I see him in Daytona, I see him in Milwaukee, I see him in Sturgis, you know what I mean? I see him all over the country all the time, and I don't can't remember his name. Like that's it's almost inexcusable. So I've made a conscious effort this year to like really try to grasp, you know, get on people's names, because like I say, man, treating, you know, I when when I run into people and they remember me and they remember my name, I mean, like I say, your your own name is your favorite word. You know what I mean? And everybody's the same way, man. So uh yeah, I've made a real conscious effort to try to do that because I mean that's just to me that that's something that seemed like it was important enough that I need to get my ass in gear and you know, figure it out. And it's been fun because actually like doing um word association and association and just trying to like, you know, because you I know you've done it before, you've like meet somebody and like as they say their name, it just you know, it's like as soon as like as soon as they're like, hey, I'm John, I do, you know, and you're like I've lost it already, like it's gone. That's just inexcusable. That's lazy, is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Yeah, well, it's uh my mind works in a way where if there's if there's some there's something I have to remember that's beyond um beyond like a person's name in order to be able to recall it sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 54:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

And it's like I've noticed it at knife shows where people come up and introduce themselves and everything, or maybe like, or they'll say, hey, we've talked online. I'm like, you know what? I said I feel I feel bad. Like, first of all, just understand that I feel bad, but I don't know who you are. Right? It's at a knife show, and you know, everything's going on all at the same time, but it's really no, it's really no excuse. Like I'm reminded, um, my my parents, um, well, my my dad was certified to do some testing for uh watches that went over to Desert Storm back in the uh 90s. Uh they they uh they had tritium cores for their uh watch faces and stuff, and so they had to be tested uh in order to get military contracts. It was a Canadian and Swiss company. And anyhow, um so they would uh test these watches in a laboratory um and get the the numbers back and they'd have to pull all the watches that didn't meet standard for uh triti tritium leakage, right? And um, and then those packages had to be uh packed and shipped at a uh at a military approved shipping company in New Jersey, right? And so every once in a while uh my parents would like uh pack up, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of watches. And and we'd have to uh ferry them over to this place in New Jersey to ship them out. And this uh the shipping yard had a uh a guy there that ran security, and he was an old timer, he'd wear like you know, uh iron slacks and a tucked-in shirt and everything. He was probably uh World War II, right? Right, and he would remember uh everything about a person. Uh you know, he would he uh he everybody he he used to tell my mom, like I would I could remember everybody's uh name, rank, and serial number uh from the military, every single one. And he had a photographic memory. And so there were there were times when we would uh roll up to this uh this his security booth or whatever, and he would say, Oh, my mom's name and everything, and they would just talk like they were old friends. And my mom would bring him like cookies and other stuff just to like you know tied him over. And sometimes we'd see him every week, and other times it would be uh a few months to a year or more, right, depending on what surplus needed to be sent over to troops and everything. And uh that was always something that that impressed me that somebody could not only if they had the capacity to, but they cared enough, even though they might only see a person one time to remember who they were, right? Yeah and and and be able to recall it. It's a talent that I just I don't possess. But I do feel bad if I don't remember somebody's name.

SPEAKER_06 56:49

Um I think I've had enough head injuries that that's I mean, that's part of my excuse. So, you know, yeah, but yeah, I've I've I've made a conscious effort this year to change that, and it's actually working. You know, I've made um it's been a lot of people this year that I've met, people that I've known for a long time that I've finally like, I got their name down. I got their name down, and then you know, a ton of people that that I've met knew that yeah, so that's been yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Well, yeah, and um I I I think kind of on that note, I you know, we're all just people, you know, in knives and stuff. Like I I I haven't realized uh at some point in time uh my own man, I'm not gonna say celebrity. Um there's nothing about me or my knife making or my life that I think is any more than average, right? But I I I will be I am surprised sometimes, you know, going to knife shows or um other things that are knife people related, where somebody will come up to me and say, hey, blah blah whatever. And I was like, dude, I had no idea. Yeah, I didn't know anybody had no idea that anybody was following me. You know, like I have you know, maybe less than a thousand people on uh on social media that I I have actually going to my stuff. I've seen some people who have posted on on Friends uh posts about the podcast and listening to it, and I'm like, man, like I don't I don't even know. Like I just do this kind of just because uh because it's something for you, yeah, yeah. And I mean really that's where that's where it's at. Oh yeah. My wife will tell me like this is like this is something that's really interesting me, so I keep in it, right? But I mean that's I think the same thing. Like I it it humbles me sometimes to realize that like the things that I put out there into the universe are things that people uh attach themselves to and appreciate. And I I think that um not only is it humbling, but it's profound in some ways, because just like um you might not always realize the the impact that you have on people just by saying something that is uh uh stage or like you know, like me, you spurred me on to do my own thing. And there's a there's a portion of me that always thinks back to that, well, um, if he could, without knowing me for very long, see something in me that um, you know, he he would encourage me, then like I should be able to see something in myself that spurs me on to continue down that path. Yeah, yeah. It's like, I mean, so that's that's I think a big um a big piece of it. Um when it when it comes to motorcycling, um, when did you get into motorcycles and uh kind of what I mean what what keeps you going on that other than just like the open road and these events and things?

SPEAKER_06 59:43

Uh well I mean I you know when I was a kid my granddad had motorcycles and three-wheelers and you know all kinds of motorized toys. So we you know we grew up messing around with that stuff, and uh when I was 12 I got a motorcycle for Christmas. I got a Harley. It was a 125, you know, street bike. Um and I just rode the d dog snot out of it. Uh wintertime, I mean it didn't matter. I just rode it, rode it, rode it, rode it, never did any meanings to it, it just never stopped running. Uh I think it was a lot of fun. Um but then I you know, I years later, I mean I rode dirt bikes, um, I actually raced dirt bikes. I did that after I moved to Texas. Um I raced dirt bikes for several years doing off-road stuff, cross country, hair scrambles, you know, that kind of stuff, enduro's. Um and not, you know, just as fun, you know, not any any kind of uh professional capacity or anything. I was just out there having a good time. I wasn't any good at it, you know, I just loved it. Um and then like uh God it's I can't remember what year it was, but like just recently, like it was 2019. Terry Shanks that I got the knives from, um, gave me a motorcycle. He uh had one in his driveway and he had another motorcycle he was running it, and then just had one that was sitting around and wanted to run it. He was like, Man, you want to ride this thing around a little bit? And I so I rode it some. And then uh it wasn't legal. So I was like, Man, I need to get this thing registered, you know, let's go get this thing registered. He just dropped the title over and signed it over to me. He's like, This is yours now. You know, taking care of her. Her name was Jolene, and I kept the name, because I mean, what am I gonna do? That's just a cool name, so you know. Uh although it's not named after she's not named after the Dolly Parton song, Jolene. Although everybody thinks that, and I, you know, I'm I still I love that song too, so I sing it to her as we're going down the road, but that's not the uh yeah, that's not who she's named after, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

I've uh any like there's a there's a guy who uh had an old uh square body Chevy down the road uh from us in our neighborhood, and his uh his truck is named Joe Lee on the back. And anytime they moved out uh from the neighborhood recently, but every time I'd uh drive by his car, I'd think about you.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:16

Right on. Yeah, well, you know, it's funny too, because like you're asking, like, what keeps me going, man? I mean, honestly, dude, I just I love like I say, man, I have my perspective on on life and on this is you know that we are just bacteria on this rock and we're just hurtling through space, you know, it's random as can be. And you know, like you said, being on a motorcycle, it's one of the uh one of the simplest, you know what I mean, but like open um ways of propulsion where you know I mean I'm just precariously perched atop of it, you know, and uh just wherever I look and wherever I twist the throttle, you know, that's where it goes. And um man, Addison, that's really what it's about, man. I really just enjoy riding. Like when I'm riding, I'm looking, you know, I'm kind of just I look as far ahead as I can, and I'm just like, you know, I'm literally propelling myself through through space, you know what I mean? So I love camp. I love camping, that's the thing is too, guys. I love being outdoors, I love camping, uh, you know, all that kind of stuff, and that's you know, that's part of the motorcycling that I really, really enjoy. I get to just enjoy like riding all day, and then I just you know find a creek or something somewhere, and I'm like, I just set up camp. That's the best. Like it's you know, like I said, so my buddy Spook used to says that um I can't remember it's I'll paraphrase, but what he what he says is basically like when I was 12, I rode a bicycle around all over town pretending it was a motorcycle, you know. Um just out exploring the world. And now here I am as an adult, and um, you know, ripping around on a motorcycle, pretending I'm a twelve-year-old on a bicycle, you know, uh exploring the world around me. I mean, that's really like what's around the next corner, what's you know, what's down that road, you know, what's let's go up that mountain and see what's up there. So, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

Yeah, well, and and that's something like uh there are people in this world who look at um uh look at the country or like the like the roadway or whatever or land as like flyover towns, right? They're just like nobody cares. And I I've always been the kind of person that drives everywhere. Like uh if I have to fly for business, it's one thing. But if I if if I travel, I want to be able to drive it, and I really hate uh just going through interstates because you know, same old, same old. You go through 20 all the way out to South Carolina, you've basically seen everything because it's all pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:10

And uh the movie Cars. Yeah, watch the movie Cars. You've seen it, you've seen Cars, right? You remember that movie? Yeah. So my 17-year-old was, you know, at that age, right, when that movie came out, that he watched it nonstop. So I guarantee I watched that movie six or seven thousand times. Um, you know, we would watch it four or five times a day, like the second it was over and the credits would start, he would just start it over. Yep, and it would go right to the beginning song. And I mean, I knew every word of it, I know every part of it, but what's fun is it's a great movie, you know. They got these beautiful, beautiful little towns where you know Bob owns the tire shop, you know, and you've known Bob your whole life, you know, and everybody gets their tires from Bob. And Bob. Raised his family on that tire shop. And the same thing with the you know what I mean? Like all the everything all the businesses in town are what made it happen, and the people would come through, and you know that was it. Well then they built the interstate. Now there's a bypass, and there's an exit ramp, and they put a gas station out by the freeway, so nobody goes into the town anymore. It kills the town, it kills the businesses, it kills the people. You know what I mean? It just kills the heart of the whole thing. And it's just crazy because I like, you know, it's such a dumb like it's a kid's movie, but it's such a big deep message. Um, and I love riding out west, so every time I'm like out in the mountains, you know, out in New Mexico and Colorado and all that kind of stuff, you know, you've got it's you know, you look around and it kind of reminds you of that movie. But you know, yeah, you go into like little little towns, and that's the thing too, is like you go into a little town and don't go to the don't go to the 7-Eleven. You know, if it's big enough that it's got a 7-Eleven, don't go to that gas station, you know. Go to the first gas station on the edge of town, you know, where it's just got you know some dude working in there, you know what I mean? Like you gotta go to the local spots and and really see that. And that's that's that's a way better way to see I was just realizing last night the wife and I watched uh you know, Pee Wee Herman died, obviously, everybody's uh um, which is really sad. I was a big fan of Paul Rubens, um, but the movie that he did like after, not not big adventure, but the one he did later with uh Joe Mangalamella. Um yeah, that's we watched that last night, and that's it's such a great movie about like, you know, Pee-wee lived in a little bitty town, and you know, Joe tells him, Man, get out there, get on the open road, live a little, you know, and uh just the adventures that he has, like man, that's literally what I'm doing, but I'm I'm you know what I mean? Just I I don't know what what what how I got lucky enough to be able to do this. I'm pretty stoked that I am, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

Yeah. Well, you know, um I've lived both on like this this the straight lace side um in my previous marriage, and then the um well, I've always been a hillbilly. I mean I grew up in the in the Appalachian. So I I mean I I think I I pr I pretty much just faked my way through straight lace, like wearing polos. So where are you from?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:32

Are you are you not from Texas also?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

No, I uh I moved down to Texas when I was 18, but I was originally from a really, really small town in uh the Appalachian Mountains in Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:44

Yeah, so um I'm going so I'm going to the so I'm going to Brooklyn in September. Um and I've never been there. So uh last year, or two years ago, um I went, so I've been to like most of the United States, um, but as far as the East Coast, I've you know I've been to Florida, been to North Carolina, been to Georgia, um, I've been to Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, that kind of stuff. Um two years ago, went to uh uh Virginia, West Virginia, or West Virginia, Virginia, and uh North Carolina were all first for me. So in September, we're going out to Georgia and then all the way up. So I'm gonna get to go through Pennsylvania, go up through, you know, all the way up through everything up to uh Brooklyn. So that's gonna be that's gonna be interesting. And I and I'm a big fan of just, I mean, I've you know, just that little bit that I got to ride out there in those mountains are beautiful out there. They're different, you know, they're different than like the the Rockies. Um yeah, I'm stoked about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:52

So yeah, well the uh the Appalachians are ancient mountains, right? So like the the the way that the uh the subduction plates work on the continents, the uh you know the Rockies and stuff are new geologically compared to the Appalachians.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

So they've had time to wear down from erosion and stuff, but you're you're actually going further back in geological history by riding through them.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:13

Well, they were built differently too. So you know what I mean? They're completely different. Yeah. Uh yeah, uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

Well the the thing I I appreciate about that area of the country is um that the like the flora and fauna, like the uh you know, just the nature itself is just so it feels so pristine. Um and not not pristine in in I guess in the sense that I feel that way out west further. But um it's I'm trying to think how to describe it. There's a lot of like gullies and gulches and cricks and and things that just they just seem like like you could I grew up in Iowa and it seems like it's just flat there.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:01

Oh yeah, but Iowa is absolutely beautiful too. You know what I mean? Yeah, you have to search out some of those cool spots a little bit more than you know what I mean? But uh yeah, yeah, I get you. I get you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's just like right it, it's it's like right around a corner, you could have this like like Ricketts Glenn is a place that's up there that's just uh it's a it's like a hiking trail type of area that you you if you drove past it you'd never know it was there. Um but humongous water features like old old uh uh waterfalls and super old trees and little like sinkhole type of uh um areas where the water is just being tens tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years have ripped through the the stone features. Right there's there's a place up uh there's a place up uh near Wilkesbury's Creaton area that's called Boulder Field. That it's the all all the all from like small gravel all the way up to humongous boulders. Um it was a glacier.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:02

All deposited from glaciers.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

Yeah, and you get to see all like the progression. You can actually walk over all these boulders. It's it's just that's all as far as you can like see and walk, it's just a bunch of boulders, and you can vault over them all the way up to the the where the glacier um receded, and there it's all all like uh um like raw rock that's just like you know, cliff faced basically. And it's stuff like that where you can you can miss it in a second if you if you don't take the right turn, you don't search for it. And that's kind of like I mean, that's a lot of places for sure, but Pennsylvania, it just seems like there's there's some areas that are a little bit more accessible, like you can just just by turning off a main road get to a place like that, and then you can spend a lifetime trying to enjoy it. I mean, but you know, things are real slow real slow up there. Like, I mean, I grew up I grew up in the 90s, um, but I really felt like I grew up in the 1950s because I can still remember you know, I still remember um my folks had a black and white TV uh for a while. I mean, we we had a Nintendo and we got three channels. Um, every knew everybody in town. I mean, I I was telling my wife the other day that uh you can like I I was trying to give her a frame of scale of how small this uh town was that I lived in. And uh I was like, it's you know a few hundred feet long. It's not it's just a bunch of and and that is town, and we happen to live in it. Um and my grandparents and and great grandparents have lived there uh for quite a while. Uh so you know, I was I was third generation to grow up in that town.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

Um, but it's it's real cool. And you know, uh when are you are you gonna ride your motorcycle up through that area?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:49

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:51

Um yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't it'll be interesting to see what your take is on it. But you know, the the old uh old New England style country is a completely different type of experience. In Brooklyn, you know, when you go into New York and everything, you have those old old boroughs and everything and the culture and I've never been, so all that's gonna be new. Yeah, that'll be exciting. I mean, because you get to see it in a way that most people don't. I mean, you you fly into it, you go from the airport to a taxi or something, and you know you don't get to see it. And you I mean you the food is different on the outskirts, the uh people are different, um, all that stuff. So yeah, I mean, I don't live there anymore, but man, there's lots of times where I pine for those uh old mountains and the um the scene. And uh I think you'll really enjoy it, especially. I mean, you get to go you get to go through Amish country if you're driving up there. Oh yeah, and it's a completely different like it's flat, kind of like Iowa is, yeah. Uh down there in the basin, and then um and then you go up through the uh Appalachians and everything, and um it's it's a lot of very micro like microclimates and uh cultures up there. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty crazy. Um there's just it's it's similar to Texas in that you have a lot of different like microclimates, as it were, right? Um and a lot of just real crazy cats, a lot of hillbillies. But um yeah, I'll be interested to see when you actually get up there and after you're back, what how what do you think about it? Yeah, but you know, that's uh uh what I I was uh trying to say earlier is that you know, like on the I I've lived on the straight lace side of things and I've also um um just kind of fallen back into my rural um I guess mentality and everything. And one thing that I appreciate about like you know the kind of cultures that we're in is that um a person is evaluated uh by their their value and their like you know, their face value, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:16:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:00

It's not about putting on airs and trying to manipulate people into thinking that you are a someone that you're not, but you're genuine. Like tattoos and motorcycles and knife making and uh these type of things are uh really good indices to be able to suss out whether somebody's full of it or not.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:19

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:20

And that's what I like. I mean, I if I'm gonna talk to you about something and I and I want to be genuine about it, I really just kind of want to know that like um that I'm in, I guess, investing myself and my spirit and energy in somebody who um who can at least appreciate me as a person. And it's really it's really difficult when you live in cultures where you might say something and then automatically somebody's just gonna be talking behind your back or you know, uh stabbing you in the back for some reason or another, and I just don't have time for that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:50

You know what's really crazy is I've had a uh an odd experience here the last couple of weeks is um so I went to Run to Ratone. And it's just this whole weird like series of events, but so I went to Run to Ratone, and when the first Run to Ratone was 2017. And in either 2017 or 2018, um I was there and they uh there's a video where a guy does a wheelie on a chopper, really long front end, and he's got there's a guy on the back of the bike with him, he's got a beer in his hand, and they do a big wheelie and he almost falls over. He kind of hits a uh a stop sign, um, like the concrete at the bottom of the stop sign, just barely clips it. Boom. And uh when that video came out, it went viral. I mean, it just like it was everywhere, everybody saw it, like it was insane. Um but what's really crazy about it is I'm in that video. Like I'm in the very, very background at the very beginning, um, and I was stepping out from b between my truck and another truck uh with my phone getting ready to film and I missed it. They you know they had already nailed the the shot they wanted the one that went around. Anyway. So I uh I shared it because I was overtoned. You know, I've been every year, I was like, I'm gonna share this video. As of today, six hundred and sixty-nine thousand views which got me like seven hundred new followers um, you know, just in the last few days. And what's really funny is it's brought out uh you know, I mean obviously there's with that many views you're gonna get a lot of comments, and it's got a lot of comments, but man, it's gotten to the point where it's gotten to the like the negative comments and the crappy, you know, just the all the the nasty stuff. And uh it's been kind of an interesting watch to see, you know see what kind of yahoos come out of the woodwork and having to deal with that. Because it affects you, you know, it does, whether you whether you want to admit it or not, it does. It affects you. Um then people say crappy stuff, you know, and it's like it's just an interesting, you know, it's interesting to watch.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:19

Well yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, they say like uh opinions are like uh buttholes, everybody has one and and they often stink. Yeah, yeah. I mean uh yeah, and that's the thing, you know, like it's difficult in this interconnected world that we live in uh to try to um not let negativity sidetrack you.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

Right. And it seems like, man, I I feel bad for our children in a lot of ways because um there is no like we have a foothold in reality because it's uh it's a foothold in in the analog, right? It's like it I saw I saw Terry Terry Shank post something up recently where he was like, you know, like uh people like to run their mouths, I'm paraphrasing like people like to run their mouths or whatever, but you know, there's there's there's several types of people in this world, like those who run their mouths and they get shut up pretty quickly. Uh you know, you you can hold your own or you you know die trying. And it's like uh um that's that's the way it is. It's like uh, you know, if somebody wants to get up in my face about something, then I can usually address that pretty quickly. But how do you do that with like cyberbullying or like people just infiltrating your world and then backstabbing you constantly? Like there's like it's like the subliminal um and and insidiousness of friendships and everything is it's difficult to navigate in some ways because I don't everything's done online. It's like my my uh daughter can just like look. I mean, she had this problem where she was getting bullied in school. Um, and she would just like sit and like look at her Instagram feed or these group text messages or whatever and and see things. It's like she couldn't, she couldn't just put her phone down. And I just walked in one day, I was like, What are you why are you crying about? And she's like, you know, blah, blah, blah this happened. I was like, you know what? You have one easy button for that. I said, turn that phone off and just live in the real world for a little while. I said, you know, like the people who want to pursue you um and be like do violence towards you, whatever, outside of your phone are the ones that you can do something about, right? Right. But if you're just like paying attention and living in this world uh of like cyber whatever, then it's totally fabricated. It brings out the worst in people because they feel like there is there's nothing that's that stops them from being rude or and we all do it, whether we want to admit it or not, but we all do it, but we curate you know our environment.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:53

You know what I mean? A good example is Facebook, where like people go on Facebook and they're like, you know, like everybody I talk to on Facebook agrees with me. Well, yeah, that's because you've blocked everybody that disagrees with you. You know what I mean? Or the friends of yours that say stuff that you don't like, um, you don't comment on their stuff anymore. Now it doesn't show up in your feed, so you know, it turns it into where now you've got a bunch of yes men, you know, and uh and even even I, you know, I've guilty of that, where I've got, you know, I've got almost 20,000 followers, yet everybody's like stoked on what I do, you know what I mean? I don't really get a lot of negative stuff. I mean, I make you know, I make my morning videos, and it's funny because I as I travel over the country and people tell me all the time how you know they're like, man, your morning videos, they like inspire me just, you know, and it's like that's not why I'm doing it, you know. I'm like, that's a benefit. I'm glad that it's working that way. But it's I'm doing it to remind myself, you know, like hey, get up. Get some stuff done. Uh don't worry about all the, you know, don't worry about the voices in your head. You know what I mean? Don't worry about all the naysayers and all the crap, you know, because none of that's important. So it's just a it's a neat benefit that it works for me, gets me up, gets me motivated. But it works for so many other people too. But again, like I said, it's also a curated group where you know, now I've got this, you know, I posted this thing, it goes crazy, I got tons of shares, and now I get all these negative comments, and it's like, ah, you know. We we we even even us who grew up without cell phones are now shielded somewhat, you know. Your your friends list is literally that. It's your friend's list, you know, like you're the one that's in charge of it. People that you don't agree with, or people that are doing crazy stuff, people that are negative. You're like, I don't want to hear that. You just block it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:49

Um, and I and it's and it's tough because like your daughter has to go to school, you know, she can't necessarily get away from that stuff, so yeah. Tough world.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:01

Well, yeah, and it's uh we don't live in the age anymore where you can get in fights and like dust off and then be friends again. Like every everybody's like pulling guns on each other and calling the cops and everything like that. It's like uh man, like there's no there isn't any real con conflict resolution, it's just a bunch of like oh, it's real catty. And so I don't know. I mean, I uh but I mean, I don't know. Like that's the thing too. I mean, you're talking of twenty twenty some thousand people that all see your stuff and and you're a focal point for them to get to get that information and everything, and then you know, one one thing, one thing you say or one thing you post just like changes the paradigm and the way that they think about life, and uh some people just don't like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:50

Right, right, that's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:52

So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I I I am fortunate enough, I guess, that I don't have that kind of problem because like sometimes it does irritate me when I see people that are just like like my my vibe is just that I man, it's like I'm live and let live. Like I just want people to like I'm like I'm I'm a Jesus guy, like I just want peace in the valley. That's what I tell my wife. It's like, you know, I I like I've I was built for war, right? I mean I'm I'm a hillbilly, I I have had multi-like I've known of multi-generational feuds and things, and have been roped into that stuff, and I just want peace in the valley, right? And um and even though I I will get up in arms about stuff, like I do, I do just want peace at the end of the day. And I really try to fight for that now. Um, especially like I I'm not not really built for getting into fights a whole lot anymore. Right. Um, and I'm just uh I'm just kind of like there's more things to life than just getting angry about things and whatever it'll ruin your day, like your trajectory uh is is set and it'll ruin your day. And it's it's the same way, like you know, like as it ties into knives and everything, um, you know, there's a lot of people that want you to make knives the way that they think that you should make knives.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:11

Right. And there's and there's people that want you to conduct business the way that that they want you to. And for the for the the uh supporters, I'll say more than collectors, you know, it's just supporters, people who are like vibing on your same thing uh and want to see you succeed, um, they're there to help you succeed. Uh and and sometimes that's just a kind word or uh uh affirmations or whatever. But um, but I I think though that um it everybody else, um it just is not really worth the time. Like you can't you can't make everybody happy. But kind of on that note, you know, like you so you have this aesthetic and everything, and I know um when we were talking way back in the day, you mentioned about uh going through some of the um was it the Texas Knife Makers Guild? Um and and they looked at your knives and inspected them and they weren't um And that was in my you know that was in my first year of making knives too.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:12

So, you know, and there was a point where uh, you know, again, like I say, I overreacted. I, you know, I I don't want to say they were right, but um it's just my ego saying that. But you know, uh yeah, it was just a I don't know, it was just a blow that I wasn't prepared for and I overreacted. But like I say, I'm really glad that that happened the way that it did because it really got me to see uh you know, the inside of it before I was in it, you know what I mean? Um because as soon as it happened, so you know, they turned me down and um you know, I bitched about it and I made a post about it. And I had a ton of people that hit me up and were just like, kind of what I told you, they were just like, Man, just do you. Like what you're doing is cool. Do you know? You don't need them. You don't need you know, you don't need their their justification and their verification. You know. None of that's important. Uh it's only important if you think it is. You know what I mean? Um because no one's ever hit me up about a knife and been like, Well, are you a member of any uh you know? They see the knives I make and they're like, Yeah, I dig it. And if they you know and I to be honest, it happens to me once a while. People are like, Hey, you know, I wanna I like this, but I want you know, I want mine like a mirror polish, and I'm like, I don't do that, you know. That's you have to have somebody else do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:47

Yeah, well, and so you know, like uh I mean my my knife experience has been so I got into the Texas Guild. Um and uh and then I got into the knife makers guild, like the big guild.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:02

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:03

And I mean I I don't know how I've portrayed that guild experience on the podcast, really. I mean, I do appreciate the fact that the um that the guild represents a um a history, right? And the Texas Guild is kind of like a smaller portion of that. Um But at least the idea for me is that I I wanted to see if I could do it. But being being several years out from the experience, I have to say that the like being part of the guild anymore is not yeah, like you don't instantaneously make more money and you don't you're not you're not part of this like um cadre that uh you you just sell out of all your knives and everything like that. It's not it it's not like that. And so like for me, it's it's not really a a a gentleman's club. Um and and I will say that the the the detriment um that I feel if if anything is that I I got a lot better at understanding how to make a knife, but I lost a lot about the reason why I was making the knife.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:17

Oh no kidding.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:18

Yeah, and and and that's something that I've yeah, I'm constantly in reinvent mode. Like, I mean I never I never changed. Like I'm just constantly like, well, okay, what am I gonna do next? What what's interesting me and everything like that. But I spent a long time uh focusing on w a way to make a knife to fit into parameters that uh could I could be judged on by a small group of people that um you know you as at some point in time um work all kind of like the blinds leading the blind.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:51

Right. Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:52

You know, it's like you know, you can't really fault me on this scratch when I see that the same scratch is being made on your stuff. And right, right. And and that's where like you know, the the I I think the exercise of being in the guild and whatnot, it helps you to like kind of step back and say, okay, well, like, is this something that is purposeful, right? Is this part of an aesthetic that I'm trying to go for? Or is it something that is based off of inexperience?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:16

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:17

You know, and there is a difference, I think. Or just being lazy, yeah, or lazy, right? No, no, no. And and I think that there is a difference. There's a difference between being lazy and like you're good enough being just what it is. There's a difference between an aesthetic choice and everything kind of has its place, and there's a difference between inexperience and uh uh being a novice at something. And I really had to suss those things out, and it helped me to kind of curate that uh that kind of idea in my head. Um, but I in in doing that, I also wondered sometimes if um the way that I was making knives or the aesthetic that I chose or things like that are um you know maybe not the direction that I necessarily want to take in like what the like what I look for brand wise. Because like for me, like I I like the idea of making real, real uh high like uh high end is the wrong word, but find knives that uh that look really good and clean clean uh lines and stuff, but I detest the fact that nobody would ever use them. You know, right, right, right. And and those those are kind of intrinsic qualities because like if if uh if you make a maybe subliminally that's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:30

Right? Maybe I mean maybe that's where I'm at subliminally, is that I want people to use my knives so bad that I don't want to make them too nice, you know. You know what I mean? Because I do. I I I I'm like almost sick at the thought of somebody like buying a knife from me and then just like putting it on a shelf and you know, like, uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:53

But well, I mean, and that's you know, everybody has to I I think I'm gonna I'm gonna stop here and and kind of retrace my steps in the fact that I there are some people that don't think about it at all. I think that they just make make in whatever is is is, right? But I think that if you you know you have a lot of time on your motorcycle to think about things. And I I kind of have like a neurotic tendency to overthink things. And and I, you know, I think that we think about that. Like, so it's like what what goes into life, what goes into knives, what goes into relationships, and and and how do you experience the full the full meal, right? And um, and I there's like um there's a uh knife manufacturer up in Michigan um called Bark River Knives. Yep and Bark River. Yeah, and um uh the Stuarts and everything, um, they they make a good knife for an affordable rate, but they're not flawless. Right? And there's some people like online and everything that will just dig on them because there's there's just something that doesn't isn't right, like the grinds aren't you know exactly symmetrical or whatever. And there there are there are some aspects of that that I can I can understand where they come from because some things seem a little bit more blatant than others. But um, you know, you're paying $250 for a knife that's fairly big that looks like it it takes a while, uh it takes a while to make. You know, you they're expecting the quality of like a twelve or fifteen hundred dollar knife for two hundred and twenty-five dollars.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:34

Right, right, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:36

And like I I have to wonder sometimes, like, you know, I mean, they put hands, uh, they put uh knives in the hands of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:45

And by far, the supporters of Bark River are more than the detractors.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:53

Oh, sure, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:54

And their prices have stayed very reasonable. Um, the the people who run it are genuine people, and um, you know, but it's not it's not flawless and it's not um perfect. Um, but you're not paying you're not paying the price for that. Right, right, yeah. And you know, sometimes I wonder, you know, like if you if your price point is is a little bit lower, if that changes the dynamic about um how like whether there's more people that can use your knives or whatever. It's just like your production cowboys, you know, somebody might not be able to wait, you know, several years to get on the NickCuff custom list. Um, but with a cowboy, it's more obtainable. And they get uh you know, you're putting the same uh kind of aesthetic into something that's um very reasonably priced. So like what your cowboys, your crack cowboys are uh is it top end is three hundred dollars?

SPEAKER_06 1:35:46

Those are three hundred bucks on the website, yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:49

Yeah. And I mean that's a lot different than you know, thirteen to fifteen hundred dollars or whatever. I don't even know what your your your custom prices are anymore.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:57

Um but yeah, I mean the tornadoes right now are about a thousand bucks or more, depending on, you know. So yeah. Yeah, I mean partially that's because of the lead time, you know. Um because I'm not the best that's one thing that, you know, occasionally I I speak with people who are like, you know, they expect because of what I charge, they're like they're gonna get this absolutely stunningly perfect knife. And it's like, well, you know, that's not necessarily the truth. I'm not the best knife maker in the world. You know what I mean? Um and again, my aesthetic, I'm not trying to make them so perfect that they're you know, that they look that way. Um but yeah, that's a a lot of that has to do and I I I gotta be honest, man. Um I don't know where I'd be if it wasn't for Spencer. Because he's the one that told me about that. You know, he's the one that told me about controlling your lead time with your prices. Because I can see and I've seen it, I've seen other people do it, I've seen people charge $300 for a knife and then get, you know, a year behind. And they're still charging $300 for a knife, you know what I mean, and then get two years behind. You know what I mean? And you're never gonna catch up from that, you know. And then and you're still making, you know, and you get three years behind, and three years you're still making the same money you made three years. You know what I mean? So, uh yeah, that's been an interesting one because I there's I get to a point where I I hate charging what I what I charge. You know what I mean? Uh but again, I I couldn't imagine like at one point my list was more than 40 weeks. And it even that is a an odd disconnect from, you know, it's like I talk to you about a knife, figure out what you want to do, you know, and I got it in my head, I write everything down. But then, you know, it's months later, and I'm your name pops up, and I'm like, alright, what were we doing? What are we talking about? Like, you know, I have to get back into that mode, you know. So Yeah. And then that's to be honest, that's one of the things too where you know, Mikey and I want to expand, get a bigger place, get more equipment, get some more guys working for us. But you know we just take it as it comes and see where see where it goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:28

So yeah, well what what's your uh what is your lead time as of today for custom work?

SPEAKER_06 1:38:35

Well, right now, um, so I blew up a couple of motors um on the way home from Daytona, which put me so my trips and all the traveling that I do, that's all in the lead time, you know what I mean? Um and it accounts for about 12 weeks of the lead time. But my lead time right now, so I got caught up some, so I'm probably about 30 between 30 and 40 weeks out right now on my custom desk.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:02

Uh that's still pretty good um to have under what is it under under a year um total. So I mean it's is and and that's is that a fiscal year, right? I mean you're like running uh or I mean that's a calendar year, right? It's like so it's like under under a year for an order.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:20

All in.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:21

Yeah, it's yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So to be honest, some of them, depending on the build, um, some of them end up being, you know, like I say, it's it's right around in there, about um, like I say it was 40 weeks plus, was getting to the where it was almost a year. Uh but like I say I stayed home from Daytona. Well, I got home from Daytona, um, I stayed home from the Mexico trip and I stayed home from Disney, and uh man, I just worked like nonstop, crazy hours. Like I would literally work and then just like go in and sleep, and then then just get up and work. I just nonstop. So I actually caught up quite a bit on my list. Um putting in a bunch of work.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:01

So yeah, well, I mean a year is still pretty um I mean that's that's good. I mean it's not that's not uh that's not so bad. And in the custom world, you know, like when some people are are getting listed as like you know, three, four, five years out. Um and and that's almost it's almost impossible um to wait that long and still keep you know you can you can go and order a Randall knife right now, and it's I think it's 2029, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:33

It's a five-year, you know, six-year wait for one of those right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:39

So well, it's kind of like um, you know, in in the uh Polynesian Islands and uh and like Hawaii, you have those uh I forget what the technique is, just for like the uh the the old school tattoos, um where they used to stay.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:53

Right, where they do it by hand with the stick and the tapping.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:56

Yeah, and most of those most of the good artists or whatever are like you know four, five, six years out on being able to do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:03

And like there's well, and the good ones that really do that stuff traditionally don't tattoo on people that aren't, you know, like uh the Samoan won't tattoo on non-Samoan. You know, they won't tattoo on non-islanders. You can't go out there and get a you know, now there are people that you you know that do that technique, but yeah, there's some people that you know, yeah, they're they're years out, and that's because they're in like you know, they have family clients, you know what I mean? They tattoo whole families and stuff, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:34

Well, and that's uh I I think there's a a cultural significance to that form of uh tattooing too. That you know, like I don't know, in the world of cultural appropriation and everything, I don't care so much about that, but um there are some like cultural sacred things that I appreciate. Like um I had a I have a buddy who works at a vape shop that uh um his his cousin um and their family lived in Hawaii and she ended uh the his cousin ended up dying. And uh he went through the entire uh ritual of burial and everything, Hawaiian style, right? Okay, and we were talking about it, and you know, by the time he got done like talking about this experience, we were both like crying because I was like, that is such a it's such a be a beautiful thing. Right. Like when I was I was going through this process of grieving for a Christian passing and everything, and you know, we think of death so much differently here, where it's like, you know, you'll be fortunate if you get awake and somebody celebrates your life versus like you know, the death side of things in in in that Hawaiian culture of uh of remembrance and grieving actively and allowing that all to like kind of um leave your body, you know, like uh rather than storing it all up, I thought it was the most beautiful thing. And you know, like as time, as time went on, I thought more about getting like tattooed and like that list and everything. And I was like, I don't I just don't know if I could do it. And it's mostly just out of a a pr a profound respect for um the way that they think about life and death. And it's like if you're not part of that, you know, if you're not part of that lifestyle and you're not part of that culture and everything, it seems a little bit um maybe disrespectful um to try to like, you know, yeah, you put stuff on like if it was a just a normal tattoo and it was done in that style, I still think that would be real rad. But don't like don't expect to have like um, you know, uh tribal tattooing and stuff on you that has cultural significance to them. Um and and try to like, I don't know, uh fake your way through that. It's like you you're either over there and you're in the culture and you embrace it, and then maybe you get invited to that yes, that circle or uh or not. Um but but the kind of the idea is like in that wait list type of thing, I was like, you know, maybe I'd maybe I'd try to get on somebody's books. Um, but then so many years later I've talked myself out of it. So it's kind of like it's it's the same way with knives. Like you get on somebody's list and you want it five years from now, like dude, I don't even know if I'll still be alive in five years. I don't know if I want to think that far out. But yeah, a year's not bad. Um and uh I I really prefer being able to make stuff and then be able to sell stuff versus having like long books or things. And uh I'm still trying to figure that out whether I want to start accepting um like have books that I can keep or whether I want to just make what I make and then sell it. But it's kind of it's kind of rough because every time you make a knife and you're not um you're not making it for somebody, you've got to figure out some way to hawk it, you know. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:51

Well, but also on the other side of that too is what happens, you know, is um I mean I don't I guess I don't strove suffer from it so so much, but I I I kinda do where, you know, I'll make a really amazing Texas tornado with, you know, fancy wood and turquoise and you know that cast and clear resin and all that. And then, you know, there's always the guy that's like, that's really awesome, man. Can you make a new one that's black? You know, and it's really easy to like, you know, make like five black ones in a row. You know what I mean? Like make five plain ones in a row, and it's like so you know, it's it's nice. Occasionally I do just see like you know, you just have an idea, and you're like, I gotta run with this idea, you know, not just stick with the list and do what what everybody wants all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:39

So yeah, no, I get that too. I mean, are you uh are you planning in this like uh path of you know the semi-production with Mikey and everything, of uh doing any other um models other than the Texas tornado?

SPEAKER_06 1:45:53

Or start the the uh yeah, we're doing the cowboy now. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I've actually got a couple of designs already uh put together, and yeah, we've got other stuff that that we want to do. A couple of something like a little simpler, um kind of a namesake kind of piece, and then you know, other like mid-range stuff, but yeah, it's definitely it's gonna take you know more room, more equipment, more guys. At least uh, you know, the the kind of vision I've got for it because you know. I don't know, it's funny because I keep thinking every once in a while about I saw a documentary where Jerry Mohan said uh you couldn't pay me to make you a custom knife right now, you know, because he makes so much money from his production stuff, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's a toss-up. I'm gonna make what I want, or I just make the same thing over and over, or do I just, you know, stick with what's working so and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:55

Yeah, and I don't, man, it's a that is also a um an element of knife making that I think plagues the the full-time knife maker a little bit more sometimes than the part-time. Right. Because you know, like as a part-time maker, like if I don't want to do something, I don't have to do it. And it's it's it's not that I don't have to do it, it's that I could just like be so against the idea that I just like banished it from all form of thought.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:26

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:27

And I can say, hey, look at this full-time paycheck. Like, who cares? Like I can do what I want. But you know, as a as a full-time knife maker, you don't like you have the liberty, yeah, to say so, but you're that's money on the table that could could go towards shop expansion or whatever. Right. And and your your ability to say no sometimes changes a little bit, and it's has to be very severely weighed by all of your other dreams, aspirations, and bill paying stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:55

And uh it's funny though, because I it's funny you say that, because I actually um I have several friends of mine that make knives that you know they go through these episodes where you know they'll call me up and they'll be like, oh man, uh, you know, this guy wants me to make him a you know a hatchet. And I'm like, you don't make hatchets, you know, like you tell 'em no. You know what I mean? It's okay to tell people no. I actually tell a lot of people no. You know, because I ha I just I have to stick with what makes me happy, I have to stick with my aesthetic. Because I do have people hit me up and want me to make an axe, you know, they're like, see them like, oh, it'd be so amazing to have a you know a matching set of a Texas tornado with a hatchet to go with it. And I'm like, I I don't make hatchets. My neighbor came down one time a year ago and was like, hey, you know, you should make custom golf putters. And I was just like, I could make anything. And I like making knives, you know. I I barely I like I don't even like making the sheaths for it, but I do, you know. Um I like making the knives, but I don't want to make golf putters. I don't know anything about golf putters. Would I have to like learn how to play golf and like learn you know what I mean? To like know what was a good one and what was a bad one to make good ones, you know what I mean? Like I don't know, I don't know. Maybe I think about it too much. Maybe that's because you know, I maybe people buy knives for me because I put that much of myself into a knife. You know what I mean? I couldn't imagine somebody making knives and just like we didn't have any care for it. They were just like, ah, yeah, I'll make a knife and I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:32

Yeah, well, uh, you know, the way I I I used to take uh orders that were just things that I it wasn't past my skill set, but it was just a uh past where my mind was wrapped around something. You know? And and you know, when you make enough of your own things, uh you get an idea about how you need to make it in the in the shop. And I found that I found that all these really unique type of things were um they kept me from being Able to make more of something. And I was spending all this time making this specific thing. And it was the same price, or not that much more than the the the I could have made more of something, right? Right, right. So, you know, it's like I I made this uh uh I got laid off for a while and I made this uh buoy knife out of an elk elk horn with uh you know quillian guard and everything, and uh and I had never made one like that before and I did not charge much money at all for it. Um uh but it took me longer to do that knife, and yeah, I learned something about it, but at the same time, um I probably could have made in the same amount of time that I made that one off, I could have probably made 15 of something else that I even if not all of them sold, I could have made more money. And um what I've I've I've decided to do instead of me saying no, like it it is a no for me. But I I try to guide, like I know enough people in the industry that I'm like, okay, this is not this is not it's a no for me because I I'm not gonna do the uh the as good a job as if you talk to this person. Right, right, right, right. And and that way, you know, I I'll I'll tell them, hey, go talk to this person, tell them I sent you, talk to them about that thing, and if they can help you out, that's fine. And then I'll usually talk to that maker and say, hey, buddy, like I had I had somebody that asked about it. I just want to let you know that like you're you're top of my mind and everything. And so if they reach out, maybe here's their contact information.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:34

And you know I hit that guy up, the guy that wanted the axe that wanted the matching set with the hatchet. I was like, you know, I I didn't know, I don't know exactly who you know who would do something. He wanted like an axe axe, you know what I mean, like an actual like hatchet, not a not a you know, take flat steel and make a make a hatchet-shaped thing. Like he wanted an actual hatchet, and I was like, Man, find a hatchet maker and I'll you know, I'll collaborate with somebody, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:01

Yeah, well, yeah, and that's you know, that's where the the Texas Knife Maker Guild in that sense has been beneficial because you know I get to see people, you know, because Texas I think is like this epicenter for forging uh type of work, especially, you know, there's people who make those like ball peen um hatchets and and things all like now. And if they have if listen, I tried to make one of those ball peen uh hatchets before and I was beaten on that with a nice anvil and everything, and I barely moved any steel. Like you pretty much you either have to have a power hammer or something, or you just have to really hate yourself. Because that steel, even even in an in the old state, that steel does not move very easy. And so, I mean, I know that some people, you know, they they do mild steel and put a uh a hardened bit in it, like uh, you know, something that you can harden and and all sorts of stuff. But you know, I just try to find people that I um I admire their work and I'm like, okay, if a customer comes by and it's a no for me, then I'll try to guide them in the right direction. But you know, they'll they'll always know why I say no. And it's not just me being persnickety, but it is because I just don't think that I can do it the same way as like somebody else. And it's not it's not even it's not worth my time, it's just that I would have to invest so much time and it's it's just not it's not economical in a way that I wouldn't produce the same work, they wouldn't be as happy, I wouldn't be like I wouldn't be able to charge as much, and uh and they would be at whatever time it takes for me to actually make it. So like overall, I just you know pass it on. I try to like you know, uh that the whole karma thing. You know, I figure if somebody uh also is that it's outside of their skill set that if they think that I do a better job of something, maybe one day they'll pass me some business. But you know, it's uh yeah, but um you know your relationship with uh Terry um is has been interesting to me. Like do you guys uh how long have you guys been friends?

SPEAKER_06 1:54:04

Uh I mean I've known him since he was a teenager, so you know I've known him for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:12

Do you um are there other like knife makers as part of like your Texas group that you uh affiliate uh directly with? I mean, or is like what what is your like core group of um as far as knife makers?

SPEAKER_06 1:54:26

Um well I mean I talked to James Fleming quite a bit. Um American Wastelander up in uh he's actually in Davenport, Iowa. What's funny is I'm from Iowa and I'm now I live in Texas making knives, and he's from Texas, living up in Iowa, he makes knives also. Um well, I mean I honestly part of the guild is like uh James uh James Hughes is a buddy of mine, you know. Uh and uh I don't know. You know, I don't really um I guess not being in the guild, I really don't pursue you know what one here's one of the things. So um they do the knife show, you know, they do blade in Fort Worth, you know, they do that whatever year. Um in the last two years I've gone and I don't get a booth down there, um, but I go down there and I literally don't look at a single knife. You know what I mean? I just go down there and talk to the to the people, talk to all the people that I know, you know. Uh I mean Gary Langley, that dude's amazing, makes just the most intense knives. Um I start saying names, then I'll start forgetting names and yeah, there's a bunch of there's a bunch of cats, yeah, yeah. There's a bunch of cats from the guild. Uh uh Ronnie Packard. Actually, Ronnie Packard's one of my favorite dudes. He's been making knives almost as long as I've been alive. Wow. And he is just the rattest dude. Um yeah, you know, I I there's not really a lot of knife makers that I really like. Uh you know, like I don't really call up other knife makers and have knife conversations. You know what I mean? Uh my buddy Keen, Jason Keene, is a knife maker and a tattoo artist up in uh Wyoming. And uh you know, I talk to him all the time, but we don't talk about knives. Yeah, we just talk about life, you know, and everything else.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:41

So yeah, well, I think that's uh uh the point I'm trying to get to. It's like uh it it seems like uh the circle of people that you keep uh uh close and everything is uh well it just seems like you have a lot of uh people that you uh commune with and and you and you can step outside of knives and what it is that you're doing, um, and and just be, you know, uh genuinely interested in life and and stuff, you know. Um but you know, Gary Langley, uh speaking of him, uh he he is one of the most genuinely nice people that I've ever met.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:18

Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:20

We uh uh I I I didn't have a table at Blade, Texas this year, and um I brought my daughter, um our she's now eight, uh, to the show because she likes to collect stickers and she'll put them all over her door, right? Yeah, and um uh we went by his his boot or as a table and he had sat there and collected stickers for her and then gave them to her. And I was like, you know, and and uh you know when when my stepdaughter's um uh uh when our our grandchild had passed, uh she was uh prematurely born, right? Uh she uh Langley uh had uh donated a knife and everything, and he was just like so genuinely sweet with my wife and everything too. I I just um you know he's like everybody's grandpa.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:11

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's an amazing dude. He is well, and you know, to be honest, that was part of the that was part of my I don't want to say my my problem with the gill, but that was, you know, that was one of the issues because that was, I mean, kind of a good old boys' club, you know. Not everybody. And like I say, I mean, Ronnie's probably one of the older I don't know how old Ronnie is, but like I say, he's been he's been making knives as long as I've been alive. And he was just the sweetest, rattest dude. Uh, but there's a lot of them dudes that are just, you know, they're good old boys, they're sitting their ways, and if it's not done this way, it's not right. And I am definitely, you know, uh opposed and you know, the opposite of uh the good old boy type, you know, so uh I think I rubbed I think I rubbed people the wrong way that way too, you know, or at least a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:03

So oh yeah. I uh I I I when I was getting introduced into the night scene when I started, um there was uh the guy I bought the shop from was uh telling some of his uh collectors that uh I made knives and I was making some models that he made. He said uh you know, he's he's really smart, but like uh he he has tattoos. And it's like so like don't hold that against him. I was like, what? I I I you know it's like there's sometimes like those uh cultures, I don't know whether you call it good old boys or or not, where it's just kind of like if somebody's different or they think a different way or whatever, that um you know they're uh persona non grata or whatever, you know, it's like uh I I I don't entirely understand that. Now there's there's plenty of people out there that are you know freaky weird with their opinions on life and everything that I'm just kind of like it seems a little too chaotic for me, but right I don't know. I I try not to be too judgy. Um but yeah, I would say, you know, with any guild or anything like that, man, it's uh that that's that's the problem, is that you're joining a group of people that say that you should do something a certain way, uh, in order to meet their conditions, and it's the same as any other type of fraternity or group, and you gotta either decide on whether you're a conformist or you're a a rebel.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:25

Was it was it Groucho Marx that used to say uh I wouldn't be a member of any club or any group that would have me?

SPEAKER_01 2:00:36

And I I kind of feel that way too. Um, you know, but there's there's a per there's a portion of uh of these groups that I think is a validation, right? So I mean it like I I can I can make knives up to the standard of the National Guild. And I I think that that's that's been enough for me. And my takeaway from that is like I'm still a guild member and everything, and I I help them out where I can. Uh, but the idea at least is that now now that I know I can push myself uh to make knives uh that conform to a standard, uh what I take away from that is that I can uh I can think about a knife and the way that I want to make it, and I know what kind of steps I need to follow in order to get it to that point.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:23

Where, you know, it it seems like intrinsic to me with you at least, like you've been an artist for a long time. And whether it's tattoos or whether it's you know doing your own motorcycle work or things like that, like you've been able to uh uh you you've had uh uh your personality, you've had your your aesthetic and and the way that you think about constructing things for a long time. And that so knives is just another medium uh by which to express yourself, right? So I mean like you know what you like about knives and then you apply yourself to it. So then after that, it's just understanding the mechanics of how you do certain things to get to your vision, right? Right. And that's different because I um I I've done all sorts of like um hand stuff, but you know, there's a difference between functional art and uh and um getting to a place where it's like you know the sublime arts uh you know you can make you can make a screwdriver that looks like you know glorified chank, uh and and so on and so forth, but you know, when you when you really want to like portray something that you have in your head, um you know, you gotta understand the mechanics first, but sometimes you gotta understand what is it in in your head that you actually like.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:41

So I mean that's interesting. Um how does that how does that kind of artistry follow you into what you do with FTW? Uh what you you play bass uh for the band, right?

SPEAKER_06 2:02:51

I do, yeah. I play bass and sing.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:53

And sing.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:54

And how that's not how it that's not how it started out, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:58

Well t tell me how it started out because I'm interested in what actually got you into.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:01

Well, I mean we started up, I mean that band was um I mean that band was just, you know, we we we got the band going. We had a singer, um we got the singer just didn't flow with us, so we got rid of him. And then uh we tried out a couple other people, but it just didn't didn't work. And to be honest, it was just kind of out of I don't want to say necessity, but it just kind of out of convenience a little bit. Um, you know, a a a power trio, you know, was easier to deal with than having four people, you know what I mean? Having one last person in the band is just one last person to have to deal with, so uh, you know, we got the band going, we had a singer, we got rid of him, and it was just we looked for a guy, but we couldn't find anybody, and yeah, I finally just took over just to make that just to make that transition easier. And it just kept us going, you know, and here it is like thirteen years later and uh still singing the band, even though I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:06

Kind of kinda like uh not wanting to make sheaths, but just doing it because it's it's part of it, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:04:12

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:14

But well and what uh what genre of music do you guys mostly stay in, would you say?

SPEAKER_06 2:04:21

We are like um we're like uh desert rock, stoner rock, um that kind of vibe, but kind of doom stuff. Uh but we're all in our 50s, so we're all kind of like metal heads. So it has it's definitely heavy, it has a metal, definitely a metal edge to it. Um that and I've convinced them to go with my old adage of you know, more is better. So we all play stereo rigs, we all play, you know, massive amounts of equipment, all that stuff around. Um louder, bigger, you know, than than anything else we can find around it.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:04

So yeah. And how does um how does that work from a business perspective? I mean, do you guys just go out and play venues um and sell tickets and things like that?

SPEAKER_06 2:05:14

Or what do you do? Yeah, I mean the band is just a hobby. Like, I mean, you know, we have no illusions. We don't have a record. Uh we don't have a record deal. We have no illusions of like, you know, going on tours and you know, anything like that. It's literally just kind of a hobby. We just enjoy doing it. Um I think there was a time of my life where I pursued that, while you know, trying to reach that goal. Um but it just you know, it didn't happen, it didn't happen, it didn't happen, and several bands, several bands, and you know I I enjoy playing music, I enjoy, you know, uh hanging out with the dudes and jamming, so yeah, we just like say that whole thing is just kind of a it's like a pretty expensive hobby, but we're actually gonna play a show um in Trilingua in October. Um actually we have two shows in October. Like that's like literally from from trying to even think. What was the last show that FTW even played? Did he oh no, we played Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We just played a show in uh Division Brewing. I think that was the only other show we had this year. So, I mean we have three shows this year. You know what I mean? It's like not like we uh you know we play on whole tours and stuff, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:36

Yeah, I always seem to miss you guys when you play. Like I see something come up, it's like, oh, they played here. And it's like, oh like I'd like to at least.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:42

Well, that's kind of that's kind of the part of the aesthetic of FTW too, is you know, we're FTW. Um and you know, FTW, it's uh the idea of the band is it's kind of like uh you know the FTW of the biker adage of FTW, you know, forever two wheels, um feed the wolf, you know. There's there's lots of different uh things that FTW stands for, but it also stands for Fort Worth, you know, and we're in Fort Worth. Um we're a Fort Worth band. We hardly play Dallas. Um but that's kind of the gig is you know, like we don't have a record, uh, we don't have a bunch of stuff, we don't have a band camp and you know, all that kind of stuff. If you want to see us, you gotta come see us. If you want to hear what we sound like, you gotta come, you know, you gotta come to one of the shows. Because that's really where we're having the most fun. I mean, we're we can do a record, but you know, you're just gonna sit in your room and listen to the record, and I can it's way more fun to come out and you know, hang out with us while we jam.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:43

So Yeah, and uh from what I've learned that you have an industrial fog machine, right?

SPEAKER_06 2:07:49

An industrial fog machine, yes. We do we we fog places out. Um we fog places out so hard that like big clubs where the their air conditioning system, like you go in the bathroom and it's the vents look like fog machines. Um we used to play at the at the grotto and that place is crazy because we'd pump so much fog in there that it would pour out the soffit and it looked like the building was on fire. You know. Uh we played um the Ardvark one time, and like they got big garage doors on the front, so we got done with our set and they opened the garage doors, and the fog completely filled Barrie Street. Like completely filled the street.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:31

Wow, yeah. You know, uh I I'm I wouldn't say like I'm a metal head, but I appreciate lots of different kinds of music. And um when I was a kid in the early 90s, there was this uh there was this th uh theme park, um, what's it like a family-owned theme theme park called Knobles up in Pennsylvania? And uh they had this one ride where it sits uh like you're on this uh spoken wheel type of thing and it goes up and down, like oscillates up and down. And they have they have strobe lights and a fog machine that they fog out, and then uh it's like a light show in there, it's all dark, right? And you go forwards and backwards and oscillate up and down on these like little tracks, and it's called it was called the Cosmetron, but they pretty much like they they would play some music that was um um like newer pop hits or whatever, but they would play a lot of metal, and like all these guys is like they were all metal heads basically. And I was like, you know, my appreciation for metal, I think early on came from uh the Cosmetron. And it was like I always wanted to go into that thing. I think sometimes I like I got I wrote it so many times that I would get sick because you know, like the uh centrifugal force and whatnot. But um, yeah, it's interesting because if you're like a uh if you're a metalhead or you like that kind of thing, it is like something that you like to your core.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:48

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean I you know, we actually had band rehearsal last night and uh this time of year with my travel schedule, we actually we end up missing uh rehearsals quite a bit, but that's kind of our thing. Like we get together every Tuesday night and hang out and jam, you know. It's kinda like the it's kinda like our, you know, just our thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:10

So Yeah, and how long have you played bass for?

SPEAKER_06 2:10:14

Um actually I played bass for like I mean, I've played bass for FTW, that's it. I've thirteen years I played bass in this band. Uh but I played guitar uh since almost since I was fourteen. So yeah. When I was fourteen, I picked it up, started messing around a little bit. Um when I was eighteen, uh had a lot of time to sit around and learn the guitar. So Yeah, yeah, guitar. I had a couple guys that showed me some stuff and just yeah. Yeah, for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:55

Yeah, I've always dabbled, but um, you know, I was uh I was a classically trained violinist. No kidding. Uh and yeah, and got into, you know, being the I mean we're Pennsylvania's high Appalachians, but it's still Appalachian, right? And so the uh the country music and square dancing and uh like real it's real real traditional um uh folk music and stuff is like uh very popular on that area. And so I've played I've played fiddle and mandolin for twenty years now, probably.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:30

It's a very cool thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:31

But I you know, I my thing is like I've never found any any groups or people that want to actually jam though. It seems like you know, if if uh if there are groups that play, they're you know, that's them, and there's not really like a whole lot of jamming sessions. Like you used to you used to be able to go to like fiddle clubs or things like that back up in in the right uh where I'm from, and you would just like learn stuff and people would show you techniques and you could, you know, play kind of an ensemble stuff. But down here. it's a little bit different. Like it's a like this.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:02

Kind of like an open kind of like an open mic night for for vote music kind of stuff, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:08

Yeah. Yeah. To me, it's more good old boys when it comes to music down here because you have people that they they'll play or they'll play either by themselves or in groups, but it's really hard to break into that to just like you know like you know jam like jam session type of stuff. But um I thought that that was always interesting. I've never I've there was a small portion of time where I wanted to get into electric fiddle so I could do like some metal stuff but I never there was never really an opportunity to pursue it.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:39

But but that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:41

And the electric fiddle player that'd be great stuff. Maybe we'll have to come up with something we'll have to come up with like a a a song where you can sit in with us and we'll run your fiddle we'll run a fiddle through a distortion pedal and have some fun with it.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:57

Yeah that would be that would be fun but you know I I don't know it's been so long since I've played around anybody else I might get like self-conscious. I'm like I don't know I'm not good anymore. Like I got to I got it to but um yeah I mean I used to play in I I played in a symphony orchestra in a chamber orchestra. Oh no kidding yeah uh for several years I started I got into it my teacher had kind of like this uh connection where uh where she knew the concertmeister at this uh college and so her like select students and I don't know what actually made you select student whether you kissed her butt or um you were actually good she would kind of funnel you into that and you could you could be in uh I mean if you kind of did well enough you could uh you could get into the symphony and then I also got into chamber but it was all classical music stuff.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:48

Right, right right right my 17 year old plays the saxophone. Oh yeah and he's you know he's in school and does it in the band and stuff and he plays really well we actually got him lessons when he when he started a band in sixth grade we got him lessons and you know got him all that and he picked it up really well so he plays that kind of thing. And our youngest is just getting ready. He's he had his uh sixth grade orientation today and uh he's gonna play the trombone. So that's gonna be fun that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:19

Yeah I've always really liked brass um I I don't know my my fingers like I I can't I've I I can play Native American flute as a like a woodwind. Um I but it's real simple. I mean it's like everything's so it was easy for me to pick it up but um I tried I tried the flute and there's like too much finger there's it's too many finger positions and stuff. And I've tried the guitar but I have really I have really fat fingers. They're like little sausage links. And so uh I haven't been able to really get some of the chords.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:50

Man you know what I'll tell you there's there's some dudes that play guitar that got big fingers one of the things that always got me was um like I carry my own fingernail clippers with me partially just because I'm a boy scout and like to be prepared. But it started from going to rehearsal I'd get to rehearsal my nails were too long I just chew them and I got tired of doing that.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:08

Anyway watch TV Ray Vaughn videos that dude had like crazy long fingernails you know what I mean crazy long fingernails but he played with the pad of his finger like I played more with the tip of my finger and he played more with the pads of his fingers with those crazy nails and was still able to play so you know get you a classical guitar classical guitars are all the same the same distance well and uh you know people when it comes to I mean when it comes to fiddle playing there's all sorts but there's also a lot of different styles like you basically like what whatever type of handicaps I'm using air quotes there but handicaps you have whether it's fat fingers skinny fingers or whatever there's just something like you you figure out a way to augment your playing to fit your your mode. But you know like uh uh one of the most famous uh violinists in this era is Itzok Pearlman and he has like s uh very fat fingers he has like you know he's humongous fingers and he is able to make those uh uh his violin uh sing in a way that just you know did he change his tuning or anything so that he could just do single note single chord no he uh so I believe he was born in Poland and he uh he ended up getting polio and his parents like he didn't have to I don't think he had to do iron lung or anything um but he was convalescing and you would see all the kids out there playing and his his coping mechanism was to play violin and and then he got well enough like he still had to walk with crutches and stuff but then um I can't remember if his parents I can't remember if his parents put him into a school in uh over over in Europe somewhere or whether they emigrated to uh New York area and he he was picked up by a uh uh in in in Juilliard he he got in there and then there was two two teachers that uh uh Dorothy Delaney and uh Galamian they're they're like when it comes to classical playing um and patagogy um they're like up there on like uh the way that they kind of changed the classical scene especially in the uh uh 40s and you know and and whatnot but they you know they they uh were instructors for in Juilliard and they they basically went to town on him like constantly pushing this is the this is the way that you get that sound out of there this is how you do bow control and everything and um and kind of let um helped him to figure out how to get the same sound that a classical musician would get but using his handicaps. So like uh you know he does some things to to augment his playing like uh you're not supposed to rest the neck of the of the violin in uh inside of the um you know where your thumb at the base of where your thumb is at but you can see him and he's just like like it's uh it's like way up there but he has to do that in order to reach some of the like the the G using his thumb to spread over the top yeah except like he uses it to cradle the neck and then be able to reach over his fingers because they wouldn't normally be able to hit some of those notes. Oh right. And so yeah he's done the same kind of thing um but you know if it's interest like uh Django Reinhardt you know uh you know famous uh uh guitarist and um like his uh he was a I don't know if the term is correct anymore but he was a gypsy over in Romania or somewhere like that right right and his carriage burned down because they were carriage gypsies and and his hand was burned so he basically some of the style that he played in that everybody knows him for is actually because of his disability.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:56

Right, right right I know I've heard that story.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:01

Yeah I think he had three fingers like two fused together after they burned and so he had three fingers and some of those arpeggios and stuff that you hear those little rolls that's all because he couldn't play anything else like chords that are complex. But yeah it's interesting to me um how like the art um a point that I'm trying to kind of make in in some of the stuff that I'm doing with podcasts is that really um the the question I want to ask uh people is like why why create something right like that the at the core of it it's like what what causes us to create things and then what what gets us into knives. Because arguably you know you've done uh so much like you you have the uh I think our listeners have the benefit of seeing um that you know based on your your age and everything you've had the ability to cross into a lot of different types of creation and art and and to see kind of what that motivating factor is. And that's really interesting to me is is uh you strip out um the like falling into knives or whatever um and you just talk about creation and artistry and what does that actually look like and you know you've done it all like you're a musician you're a you know tattoo artist my wife says that a lot she says uh she says I don't know how you do it but you take what you love and make it what you do you know yeah yeah but I mean like it's it is really uh compelling to me like I you know I want the people to think um that you know you can do anything you put your mind to um but you know is especially in your case man it takes a lot of grit and determination um you know you're waking up in all like odd hours to beat the Texas heat and your uh your nose to the grindstone constantly and and just trying to put out like positive energy good vibes and um and kind of listen to the the direction that your heart is try trying to take you and what you're doing with like all things and that to me is like super genuine.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:10

Yeah I think I you know I would be doing that even if I wasn't making knives you know I think at this point I would be you know yeah I think I would be just exactly the same if I'm doing something else.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:25

Yeah I mean from your time in Jiffy Lube were you just like the like the most awesome worker there.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:31

Man I really enjoyed working there. I mean uh you know it was a great job the people that I worked with were just a lot of fun I'm really good friends with you know several of them still uh it's funny because that's one of the things I keep trying to get my all my oldest is working for work and getting ready to start into the workforce and I'm like getting a job is scary. Your first day on the job is always terrible but man I'm like you're gonna meet so many new people you know it's just you you meet people at a job that's it's a different way of meeting people. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:22:07

Like you're you know you got kind of a captive audience and you know so yeah I'm like man you're gonna meet so many people you'll meet people that you'll probably know the rest of your life you know what I mean so yeah like uh uh to me uh some of what you've been uh talking about uh reminds me that uh life experiences should force you outside of your comfort zone because when you're when you're outside of your comfort zone that's really when that there's there's that paradigm that allows you to um be authentic and and create and to think outside of yourself you know like what makes you comfortable versus what like what pushes you and that's something that I think um I mean at some point in time I think we all get into the it's not doldrum but it is a repeatability like I know what I'm gonna do tomorrow um approximately I know I know what um what I'm going to apply to my work um and that's yeah like the I the idea though is like uh you know you like in in knives you know you have to be repeatable at some point in time there has to be some element that you know what your next step is going to be and everything otherwise you can't get from the start to the finish of s anything. But they're like getting outside of your comfort zone really just allows you to experience life in a way that um if everything's programmatic you just like your experiences are limited.

SPEAKER_06 2:23:42

Well for sure for sure I know and I know several people that are caught in that and it's depressing. When you get to a point where you're living life where you're happy um it's tough to like you know I got a lot of friends that are like that that they just they hate their life and they hate their job and they're just like I'm like man I I don't know how you can survive like that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:24:06

You can change it you know it's changing I even in I even in technology and stuff like I um I would work for a company and it would take me about six months to figure out the company and the rest of the time not to quit it.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:22

So the longest job I've ever held I think is about five years. You you're either in a in a at a company or in a a stream that takes you where you want to go or you're not and like everything that everything that you can't do at a company like I mean you discover you stuff about yourself and things that you're interested in constantly um in in technology because things change so quick and you know a company that is just like stuck in their ways keeps you from being able to explore that.

SPEAKER_06 2:24:53

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:54

And so yeah yeah I mean in the early days I was like you know I figured out this thing and I want to apply it and then the company's like nah we don't want to do that like you do it our way. Um and you know so uh but yeah I mean I you know I just figured out too like you need to have you need to be able to make money and be stable too so sometimes you have to you you have to stay at a company and then have side projects and things that keep you um interested in creation and discovery and everything. So always hustling one way or another. Always hustling. So um I usually at the uh end of my interviews and stuff I ask uh uh guests like uh to impart some wisdom on like the newer or yeah new knife maker I mean I know you've you like you scatter pearls of wisdom everywhere you go but you know like for for the knife maker that is um uh struggling with identity or is just trying to get from like learning the mechanics of knife making to building a brand like what kind of advice do you would you have for them?

SPEAKER_06 2:25:58

Uh man let me think well I I'll tell you one of my favorite um and I they say this about a lot of things but um one of my favorite knife quotes was that if you want to make a large fortune if you want to make a small fortune building knives start with a big fortune right uh I can tell you the one thing that that probably made the biggest difference in my knife making when I started out um was slowing down. You know when I first started making knives I mean I would work like it's funny because I quit tattooing for a while and you know I didn't make enough knives to make enough money so I went back to tattooing. And I went back to tattooing three days a week and I would tell people I tattoo three days a week but I make knives the other seven days a week. Um and I mean I would I would work eighteen hours nonstop and just sleep and go back out there and work you know eighteen hours straight all my days off tattooing. I would get so excited to finish knives and that was the one thing that really took me like to the next level was just slowing down. You know like it's tough to one of the things I remember it's funny 'cause I'm going through this with Mikey right now is I can remember being at a point where I didn't know what the next step was. And getting to that point where you're comfortable with like I can make a whole knife and like as I'm doing each process like I already know what's next, you know, and what order to do them in. Um you know you've seen somebody profile a knife and then hand sand the spine to where it's just a g glistening glowing perfect mirror and it's like you're gonna put a handle on there and then profile it and scratch you know what I mean? Like um but yeah slowing down. Really like figure out how to make a knife and then sl figure out how to slow down. Slow down and actually do a good job. You know what I mean? That makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:02

Yeah. Yeah I think uh Bill Ruppel is uh coined as saying uh uh you you don't do a step in knives before it needs to be done right um right it's like you know there's there's plenty of things that you you can actually compound an error in a knife by by doing it so you do it too early and then it's too thin or it doesn't meet the specifications you know handle fit up dovetail bolsters you know too thin on liners for pocket knives so on and so forth it's like so many things that you'll pull it out of whatever tolerance you're trying to keep um and I I think that's a it's a good point too because man there there's so many times when you're like even profiling blades and stuff you know if you if you profile a blade and you get to its final finish and then you have to go through and grind things off when you're uh fitting handles you can actually take it out of proportion so that aesthetic that you're trying to keep is totally blown away because you finish something too soon.

SPEAKER_06 2:29:02

Yep exactly no I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:04

I mean it's that's the one thing you know making knives is like you know time is money because you don't really I mean if if it takes you 15 hours to make a five uh five hour blade then you're losing um losing that extra time but even still I'd I'd much rather make a good knife than I would try to figure out what the uh what the dollar amount yeah well yeah I mean it's it's it's mostly kind of like um you know you're you how much you're getting paid uh per hour to make a blade um right it just compounds the more that you think about it. Uh it's the same way with me preparing for shows. Like I'm like okay I want to have 15 blades that I can take to a show and then somewhere along the line I'm like you know I'm gonna take 10 blades because the the ones that I have on my bench are the ones I want to do right. And then some at some point it's like now I'm gonna take seven blades because what what what I was able to get like absolutely right was just the number that you know I actually I went through the entire process and whatever I'm left with is what I spent the you know that time and energy to get as as right as I could. But it's not right. I mean it doesn't go to a customer until it meets those specifications. Right.

SPEAKER_06 2:30:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:18

No I totally agree. Well buddy um you know it's it's been a real pleasure to have you on the the show.

SPEAKER_06 2:30:26

Well this has been amazing. You've done a you've done a fantastic job. I feel really comfortable talking to you and uh to be honest I'm excited about going to listen to some of your other episodes and seeing who else you had on and and checking that out.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:38

Yeah well I mean no it's my it's been a great conversation yeah it's my pleasure dude I mean I I just want people to be a fly on the wall and on good honest conversations about create creation and creativity and uh um yeah at some point in time um tell talk to Terry about uh uh possibly coming on the show at some point in time because I like to pick his brain about stuff and uh you know if there's anybody else that you have in mind um you know turn turn them my way but you know this is this is what I do as a part a part-time knife maker is is doing part-time podcasting too so yeah and I mean I hope that in some way um you know people look at your work um and in in this you know the group of people that listen to the podcast that they can become more familiar with you too because again larger than life I mean I've always I've always appreciated talking to you and you you're I appreciate that brother I appreciate that a lot yeah definitely somebody I admire so you know good luck with everything we'll keep in touch and uh keep keep on keeping on absolutely thanks much thank you for listening to another episode of the Good Old Blades Podcast remember that you are loved and God bless