The Good Ol' Blades Podcast
Join me as I talk to other knifemakers, craftsmen and artisans in my journey to unpack the mysteries of knifemaking, and the culture by which it's built. This podcast features interviews with many of the men and women who have built, or are building the industry of knives and knife making as we know it today. Visit us at thegoodolbladespodcast.com!
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The Good Ol' Blades Podcast
Episode 18 - Live Action Yukon Cornelius - Luke Swenson
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I got to steal some time (but not his hat) and talk with award winning slipjoint maker, whiskey aficionado, Yukon Cornelius look-alike, the marvelous and debonair - Luke Swenson, to talk about life, knives, shows, and a ton more.
- Luke talks about growing up in South Texas, and his earliest memories of knives
- He talks about his stint in the Navy, firefighting, and a little about his family
- Luke also talks about his prostate cancer diagnosis, remission, relapse, and retirement, that sprung him into making knives
- Luke talks about his shift from fixed blades to slipjoints after meeting Bill Ruple
- We talk about information sharing, Luke's admiration of other knifemakers, and some experiences of Tony Bose
- We talk some about slipjoint popularity, show attention, and handmade vs. CNC
- We talk Luke winning Best Slipjoint at Bladeshow, his other awards, and talk about award judging
- We talk also talk about selling at shows, dealer relationships, perception vs. reality, knife prices, and so much more!
You can find Luke's work on his Facebook group, Instagram, and at select dealer sites.
Welcome to the Good Old Blades Podcast. I am your host, Aaron LeVere. And join me as we talk to other knife makers and craftsmakers about everything and everything knife. Thank you for listening into another episode of the Good Old Blades Podcast. I am your host, Aaron LeVere, and I am joined by the magnificent Luke Swenson. Luke Swenson is a slip joint maker, a renaissance man, likes whiskey and uh fine song, and he's a multiple award-winning um uh blade show guy. Uh so Luke Swenson, it's really great to have you on the show.
SPEAKER_01Hey, Aaron, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. I I feel like when uh when Chris Crawford and I got started in the show, like one of the first guests that we wanted to have on was you, but we knew that you'd probably be pretty busy. So, you know, several months later, um, here you are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I've only ever done one other podcast.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah. What podcast was that?
SPEAKER_01Oh, Mark of the Maker. Basically, they just made fun of you a lot.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's that's not true.
SPEAKER_01They're a bunch of good guys. They're a bunch of good guys.
SPEAKER_04Well yeah. Well, we won't uh I I won't sandbag you on this show. I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions. You you can do that your to yourself if you want to, but I won't deliberately try to make fun of you.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay, very good. I'm still in therapy from the last one, so I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so um standard format for the show. Um I'm uh I I think that I say that every time. Standard format for the show. Uh I want to talk about you outside of knives, right? And I think I'm probably telling everybody that subliminally so they know that the format is I'm always gonna ask about make like a maker's life before I ask them about what it is that they do for a living. So uh, but like yeah, yeah. I mean, I I'm interested to know more about you. I mean, I I man, I feel like I've followed you for forever, but I really honestly don't know a lot about your personal life outside of that because it's not like we're best buds uh uh outside of outside of the knife world, and I don't come up to Idaho and freeze my butt off or anything like that. So um so who is Luke Swenson? Where'd you come from? What got you into knives? You know, whatever you want to share, I'm sure ever all of us would be interested.
SPEAKER_01Well, um I grew up in a small town about 30 miles south of San Antonio, Texas. And uh as far as getting into knives, my earliest memories are uh you know, they they almost all contain a knife in some fashion, whether it's going fishing with my dad or or um, you know, we used to watch all of those Tarzan movies on TV on Saturdays, you know, after cartoons were over, all that kind of thing. So I always kind of considered myself a knife guy. Um I really didn't know anything about custom knives. Um that would that would that wouldn't come till later, but um I uh after after I graduated high school, I uh went for a very short stint in the United States Navy when my good friend Bill Clinton got elected president. He uh basically gutted all the armed forces and force reduction, and I was determined that I had a heart murmur and that I could not function in a high heat environment like an engine room. So I became a firefighter naturally. And I had a uh one I had a wonderful uh firefighting career, uh 23 years or so. Um it got down to the point where I actually uh got prostate cancer when I turned 40. And uh so it came back when I was 42. And after that, after you have something like that, you you kind of start because I was one of those guys that was gonna do 30, 35 years in the fire department, they're gonna have to run me out of here. You know, I it was such a such a great place to work, and you know, those guys are like family, you know, we spend third of our lives together. But uh, you know, I started really kind of thinking, you know, what would be important, you know, and and and my definition of important changed. And uh, you know, my wife and I have been married for we're high school sweethearts, we got together when I was a senior. And uh we have a we have one daughter, she's now uh married and uh first grade teacher in San Antonio. My wife uh we she also had she had thyroid cancer when she we when she was 28. And uh after discussing that with doctors, we decided just to stop at the one. We didn't want to take any chances. Uh you know, uh there were some I don't remember exactly what they were, but there were some risks. So uh yeah, so fast forward that to me turning 40, finding out I had prostate cancer, going in, having treatment. Uh two years later it came back. Me deciding that uh, you know, there's a lot of more important things to do than than fight fire. Nobody ever said they wish they had worked an extra shift on their deathbed. So uh we had bought this place up here in Idaho in 2010 and enacted a plan to uh move up here eventually, and I would make knives. And uh man, that's what we did. We uh I retired from the fire department in uh 2019 and uh we hung around until after Blade Joe the that year, and we packed up our stuff in a truck and drove everything 2,000 miles across the country. There's not much like looking out in a hotel room hotel parking lot and seeing a big big truck with your everything that you own and the world in it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I've been up here full time ever since then.
SPEAKER_04Um what a what's it like? I mean, so you you were you were making knives in in Texas, in South Texas, right? And then I mean you you got to build out your shop and do all that stuff. Like, I mean, what uh was there things that you changed about the way that you were doing knives in your new shop up there uh from what what you had available to you down here?
SPEAKER_01Well, um, you know, the only the only difference in my shop there and here is that I've upgraded my equipment here. Um I bought a big I bought a big knee mill and um a couple of things, you know, just a couple of shop, a couple of equipment upgrades. But my shop is roughly the same size as it was. Um you don't need that much room to build slip joints as it turns out.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um did uh I can't remember when Chris did your video. Um were you already up at your new shop?
SPEAKER_01No, I was that was at my uh that was at my shop there in Texas.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01That was my I was basically a two-car garage.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's uh what I'm in right now. Uh I could use another two-car garage size.
SPEAKER_01You know what? In retrospect, when I was building this new shop, I wish I had built another 20 feet onto the building. You know. But hindsight, as they say, is 2020.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So um talk to me a little bit about your like introduction into making knives, like custom, custom knife making, uh, how you got into pocket knives, and also uh your early experience. I assume that your early experience with uh Bill Ruppel too.
SPEAKER_01Well, I grew I like I said, I grew up in in a town called Natalia, about 30 miles south of uh San Antonio, and another 30 miles south is Pleasanton, Texas, where Bill Ruppel lives. And you know, I mean unless you lived under a rock in that area, you you'd at least heard of Bill Ruppel. Um, but I didn't meet Bill until maybe till like 2000. I think I built my first knife, and it's really just more like a knife-shaped object, it really wasn't an actual knife, but I I built my first one like around 2002 or 2003, and uh I made fixed blades for a long time, um maybe six years, and then I actually went to uh Bill Ruppels and Rusty Preston's uh slip joint class, started kind of acquiring equipment, and then it kind of got put on the back burner. I started kind of more into the bushcraft type knives, survival, big choppers, all that kind of stuff. You know, I had originally planned to forge, but it worked out where I I didn't uh I don't know, I ran across a deal on a blade master grinder, and so I started doing that, and I just you know followed that path. Um I didn't uh I didn't make my first slip joint until around 2010. 2009, 2010. I I actually was on I was actually in Bill's shop. I would go to Bill's shop. I met him at the at a Guadalupe Forge Hammer Inn in New Bromfels, Texas, put on by Harvey Dean and Johnny Stout. And I met Bill there and I would go down to Bill's shop, I don't know, a couple three times a month, maybe, and just hang out and look at his masterpieces that he was working on. And you know, he'd help me with some file work and some basic knife making stuff, or sometimes he'd surface grind some some blanks for me. Um, you know, over just an all-around nice guy. He he you know, we weren't really doing the same thing, but you know, he was he was happy to help all he could, and I appreciated that. And then probably around that 2010 mark, I really got discouraged. Um I uh indicated to him that I might just not make knives anymore at all. And he said something like, Well, you already took the class, quit being a big sissy and make a slip joint. And man, I made that first one and that was it. That was I was hooked. I wish at that point I wished I had made them that whole time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Actually, uh December, December 9th, 20 uh, 2009 was when you took your class with uh Bill Ruppel.
SPEAKER_00Is that what it was?
SPEAKER_04Do you know how I know that?
SPEAKER_00Were you there?
SPEAKER_04No, sir. Um, the guy that I bought the shop equipment from, his name was John Weaver. And John Weaver uh lived out in Glenrose, and he took a class in in December 2009, and on the list of all the people who are at the show or at the uh the uh class, it was you were on that list. Enrique uh was there uh and a few other guys, and uh and John was there, and so I have a list, like he took pictures and took notes and everything, and so I was I was getting married for the first time at that day, and I didn't really think at all about custom knives or anything then. So uh, but yeah, I have this all all this paperwork that basically shows exactly when you took that class, which I think that that was a refresher class uh for you. That wasn't the first one that you did, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I had uh I went to their original one uh a few years before that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I mean basically 2010, but 2009, technically in December, the last month, the last month of the year.
SPEAKER_01There you go, man.
SPEAKER_04You got me. Well, you know what's funny is I for as long as you've been in knives, to to like proc proximity-wise know uh when you took those classes and stuff is actually a pretty big deal. Think about it. Think about how many years that's been, and also think about how many knives you've made and how many shows you've gone to. Um, it's surprising me sometimes the mental dexterity of knife makers to remember like really really very close to exactly uh the dates and times of certain things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I uh um I the the main reason I I remember it is because I actually had a pretty good friend that passed away right after I made my first slip joint or in that vicinity. So yeah, that's that's how I remember that. The year before my first blade show, I or no, that's not true. The year after my first blade show, because I believe the first blade show I went to was 2010. And then my very good friend of mine passed away the following year, uh, right after Blade Show. And then um that's by then I was already pretty much making exclusively, I had pretty much just started making slip joints all the time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's pretty that's pretty interesting. So um what were like the early years of slip joint making for you? Um like you know, growing growing your reputation in slip joints. Like, did you um I'm I'm going to say this mostly because I'm interested in know just on my journey, but it feels like to me, like I've been I've I've seen a decent amount of success in fixed blades, right? I've been published a few times. Um, you know, I'm not a household name by any means, but you know, some people know about my work and everything. Uh, but it seems like going into slip joints, it's like a completely different like stratosphere. And it's like I'm you have to like re like start from the beginning, but in a different type of like you know, neat niche of knives. Um how how did you how did you handle that going from making fixed blades to slip joints? Did you see a lot of success in the early years?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I I I never really had much success selling fixed blades, so I was used to the success I wasn't having when I first started making slip joints. My first my first uh my first two blade shows, I sold zero knives. And uh I call uh I call it the long lonely weekend. So, you know, I I you know it just it just kind of one of those things. I I just tried not to get discouraged and I put tried to put my shop time in. And um I think it it it it when I got when I got my blade cover in 2017, that was that was significant for my that was significant for me in the slip joint world. Um the this whole thing, I I never, you know, I mean everybody loves to be recognized or whatever, but the awards it was never about awards or accolades or or any of that. All I ever wanted was just to be taken seriously. Um and I think that that started kind of after the blade cover came out. I had you know, I I would get questions from guys that I idolized, you know. And that to me was you know, it it was awfully fulfilling, you know. It was it was you know, as as nice as the the awards have been, you know, that kind of thing, you know, it's kind of a a reward because you know the work that those guys have put into their craft, and then they think enough of your work to ask you about how you did something. And to me, that was I I felt successful at that point.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. That's an incredible amount of validation, right?
SPEAKER_01That's that's a great word, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. And no, I mean, I I don't know. Every time I talk to you, I just like feel like uh we could easily be brothers, although you'd be my much older brother. Uh but easy there. You're old enough to be my dad, but bro. I mean, I don't know what to tell you.
SPEAKER_00That's true.
SPEAKER_04I'm still hey, I I look old, but it's from years of of diabetes.
SPEAKER_01Uh but I'm actually 36, so um well I would have to have been 14 years old when you were born. So I guess technically I'm old enough to be your dad, but I have a brother who's 16 years older than me.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I'm gonna say older brother, not dad. That makes me feel a little bit better.
SPEAKER_04Well, I mean, the fact that you'd only be 14 makes me feel bad that I made an age joke. So we are not an we're not an age podcast here. I'm just joking.
SPEAKER_01I don't I I don't look this way because of the years, Hoss. It's the miles.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But you know, I I think uh well, it it's good for me, and I I've I've said this before um many times, but it's good for me that I have a day job. Um, you know, I I kind of treat knives knives like uh don't quit your day job. Yeah, because there's a certain portion of me that I that's all I really want to. Like I would just like to be able to um uh be recognized and have some level of validation um with not I I'm not even gonna say peers, dude. Like, because there's so many, like I don't really get to a certain level, um, I think, and then you stop really concerning yourself whether um a knife is bad or whatever, you know, you just kind of try to do your own thing. But man, there's so many people that I admire. Um just I I look up look up to and look for um uh I don't know, inspiration from a lot of different knife makers, and you're one of them. Like I I uh you and Tim Robertson, I mean, a lot of you guys, um, I I just I'm constantly like looking at your your pictures and how you're building things and whatnot, and I'm like, man, I can learn something. Like I have I have your Chris Crawford video, and that's indispensable to me. And um the the like being able to sit in a room where where I actually have some seat at that table or like um some some level of validation is really in a lot of ways what I look for. And that's that's kind of tough because you know you're sometimes uh it's easy to get lost in the crowd um in knives because there are just so many phenomenal knife makers. Um but I definitely can I you know can uh like empathize with that that kind of uh sentiment, like just just wanting to be validated, yeah and you know and and like you like you matter in the the scheme of things.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, you know, I I I understand exactly what you're saying. You know, I understand exactly what you're saying, you know. And I and I don't know that I don't know, I I feel like it's not so much a vanity thing as it is that I just you know I just appreciate or would like to, you know, I I just want to ha I want people to look at my work in in 50 years when I'm gone and say, well, he might have been kind of a but he made a pretty good pocket knife. You know, or he or or he tried, you know, he tried his best to help folks that wanted to get into it, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, I mean, I I think that we're in a in an age where it's it's not so hard to come by information anymore, you know. Like uh if you think about the problem long enough, you can solve it. Uh so I try not to really like hold back on anything. Like if somebody asks me a question about something, um, like who am I to refuse it? Exactly. The the one exception is like if somebody if somebody specifically told me something that I know that's kind of guarded information because they spent a lot of time in RD on it and they were kind enough to share it with me, then I'll just go I'll just go back and say, hey, like talk talk to this person about it, you know, maybe they'll share it or not. You know, I was fortunate to hear it, uh, but you know, go back and talk to them and and maybe they'll be willing to do that. So that's kind of like my where I draw the line. But everything else, um, I'm pretty much a talkative person. Person.
SPEAKER_01So to me, that's the beauty of slip joints. I mean, everything you can think of has already been done. And I mean, you know, nobody I mean you anybody that messages me or calls me or emails me or whatever that wants a pattern, if I've got it, I'll send it. You know, I mean Tony Bose arguably the father of modern custom pocket knives. You know, I talked to him once the first time I met him in Kansas City. I felt like I was, you know, I felt like Luke Skywalker there talking to Yoda. You know, he just everything he said, I just like tried to, you know, tried to memorize. And um I had uh you know asked I I mentioned something about patterns, and he said, Oh, you want some patterns? No problem. And you know that that next day, those all of those when he got as soon as he got home, all of those patterns were in my inbox in my email. He took my I mean Tony Bose took time to take my email and sat down and sent me all of those patterns, you know. And that that meant a lot to me, you know. I I really I really I missed Tony a lot. I mean, of course, you know, Bill is the maestro and he taught me everything I know, but I really enjoyed the little bit of time that I got to know and interact with Tony. He was a special, special guy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, I think that in in Tony's wake, um a lot of a lot of us try to mimic that that same kind of aesthetic, right? Like uh, you know, clean clean lines and uh great walk and talk and uh yeah those things, right? And I mean if you if you think about it, like Tony Bose pattern knives are are pretty much like the entry level pattern, like a suite of patterns to try to replicate when you're getting into slip joints. Like, I mean, how many, how many, how many people's first few slip joints are like a Zulu pattern? Right something like that, you know. Well, I uh um I I appreciate the access. Like Tony Tony opened up the floodgates to um like it it seemed like there was no preferential information any longer. It's like here, if I'm gonna learn it, then I'm gonna try to tell somebody else because I don't want it to die with me. It's like I want I want everybody to know it so that way we can continue this uh this craft on in this way.
SPEAKER_01Right. Every good maker, every time I every time I teach somebody, and I've been asked this before, there's like, man, you make these knives, you teach guys to make knives like you make. He's like, you know, that's just aren't you worried that you're introducing competition into your market, you know? And I can see how somebody might think that. Because we all make things that aren't a necessity, and there's a limited number of guys that wanna that want to buy a handmade pocket knife, right? I mean it's it's just but uh the way I see it is for every every person that I teach, they start making knives, they're going to bring their own excuse me, they're gonna bring their own set of customers into the into the custom knife world. They're gonna have access to people that I don't. You know, I'm they're not at at the entry level, the guys that buy my stuff probably aren't gonna buy from a first-year maker. Um some will, you know, but I it's I I just I never saw I've never seen it as a competition. Plus, one of the things you know, I would always, you know, Bill would always tell us, you know, all these all the guys that, you know, all the cartel guys for sure that he helped. He said, It cost you nothing, but it ain't free. He said, You got to share this information with someone else. He said, I'll I'm happy for you to come down and you know, and uh, you know, you you'd be surprised what kind of information you can unlock with you know some cold beer and a Mexican plate for lunch, right? I mean I mean that's just that's just kind of the the that's just kind of the way of it, you know. And and I've I I then I tell people that too. I just like if I help fine, you come if you come to my shop, you're probably you know, you you're not gonna I'm not gonna charge you anything. You know, I'm not gonna, you know, I don't know, I just never could I never could do that. I the idea that somebody would actually pay money to hang around with me is pretty out there if you ask me.
SPEAKER_04Well, you know, I uh kind of on the competition side of things, um, you know, they say like the rising rising tide levels all boats, right? And uh the the way that I look at it is it it's not so much it's not so much competition as it is awareness, right? And I'll use it for instance. I I'm I'm really weird about data. Like I I like looking at data and inspecting it. And so at my obviously at my own cost, I went through and bought a bunch of of the old uh uh knife magazines over the years, you know, the yearly publications, and I went back to 95, I think. And I think I I bought them every five years to current day, and I looked at the difference between makers that were producing slip joints back then to now, and you see a like meteoric rise in in the level of exposure that pocket knives, it's pocket knives, but specifically slip joints, like Rusty Preston, Bill Ruppel, Don Hansen, um, uh a few others. Uh is it Steve Dunn? A few a few others were making them fairly consistently uh back back then. But then you start seeing a lot of other people, like uh a lot of other Japanese makers, um, you know, some Italian guys, and you and you just see like a spike where it's it's now like we are uh definitely in probably the most exposure for uh slip joint pocket knives than that we've ever had. Agreed. Um apart from like the big knife companies actually producing them uh in the 1800s to the turn of the century, really.
SPEAKER_01For sure, that's right.
SPEAKER_04And yeah, and obviously that that's that's all production work. So um, so yeah, I mean, and that that started with a few guys being able to share share their time. And so if you think about it, like that's that's cascaded into really what we have today at a market that you know lots of guys are remembering their grandfathers with pocket knives or their dads with pocket knives, and they're getting into it or they're collecting it. And so I I think that it just like reignites a a like a boyhood passion specifically.
SPEAKER_01Um I'll agree with that for guys.
SPEAKER_04So whether you're a maker or whether you're a collector, I think that it's there's a symbiosis there that um it it goes hand it goes hand in hand with with sharing knowledge on how to make things.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. I I have a funny story about that. Um one time I went to one of the uh East Coast custom shows when it was uh in Fort Lauderdale, and uh the guy the table next to me was Jerry McGuinness. And Jerry is just one of those guys I mean he is, you know, everything he touches is just magnificent. You know, he's just he's good at everything, but um he only has a limited number of knives, and not everybody that was standing around my table waiting on the lotto drawings got a knife. And I happened to strike up a conversation with a young man about uh you know about knives in general, and he asked me what kind of machine I used. And I said, Well, I have a Birking and a and uh you know an Enrique Peña, early Enrique Peña grinder with the the flip flat platinum and slack belt and contact wheels and small wheel. Anyway, he said, No, no, no, what kind of uh what kind of mill? I said, Oh, well, I have a and at that time I was using uh a Harbor Freight mini mill. And he goes, no, no, no, no, what kind of CNC machine? And I said, Well, I I said that man, I I don't have a C and C machine. If I did, I would probably hang clothes on it like the weight bench. And uh he said, Well, how did you get, you know, because I had a I had a uh I had a trapper with rope file work on it. And he said, Well, how did you get this in there? I said, Well, I cut it in with a chainsaw file. He goes, Wait, you mean by hand? You know, and I said, Yeah. And so he started looking at my knives, and there was I had a stockman on the table, a little three blade, and and uh he picked that up and he goes, Man, my grandpa had a knife like this. Anyway, we he took a I could see he was taking a stroll down memory lane when he was looking at these knives, you know. That was kind of cool. And a few and a little bit later, him and his buddy came back and they both ended up buying knives off my table that show. And you know, younger kids too, you know, that these guys, you know, these guys that are that are making all of the the high-end tactical stuff, like Jerry and you know, all those guys they're the tactical guys making the liner locks or the flippers are the ones bringing in the new collectors. I mean I mean, you know, those those they may not they're they're bringing in the new collectors, and my job I feel is to show those guys my work kind of like that, you know, kind of hey, check this out. This is also cool, you know? And uh I don't know. I I don't want to I would I would like to reiterate here that I'm not saying that these guys are all making their knives on all CNC machines, but the big thing at the time was those Tormac CNC machines, those you know, back then and and I you know I I honestly have no idea you know how you know how any of those guys make their knives. They're some of that stuff they come up with is just crazy, you know, and I can't fathom doing that, you know. And but I personally never cared about any of that either. You know, as long as they're up front with their customer, how their knife is made, whatever they're doing, if it's popular, man, I say cash in.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, I mean, I you know, I I think uh it's a generational thing too, because you know, with I I I I didn't grow up this way. Like I work in computers and I understand it really well. But I do not understand uh the programming side of CNC. All right. Yeah, um, I don't I'm not good at modeling things and and whatever. So really really what it comes down to is like you have a generation of kids now that have grown up in in developing things and and the computational side, and it makes just as much sense to them to be able to plot out tooling courses as it does for me to be able to run a file on something. You know, a physical, they're running they're running a digital file and I'm running a f a physical file. And and and I think I think that it does like, yeah, you can repeat the same thing over and over again in CNC, right? But but really not. Like if you think about it, like you you uh you have the program, but that is like one small piece of it. Like you gotta set up all the tooling correctly, you gotta make sure everything is running uh uh correctly. You have to be able to like run the stuff on the material that you want, and sometimes your programs don't work.
SPEAKER_01I mean, all that to me, all that is all they're doing, all those guys are doing that cut the cut that stuff out like that. They're basically they have a really nice overpriced bandsaw, you know. I mean, they still have to build that knife when it comes out of that machine. There is still an unimaginable amount of work and skill that goes into doing that, you know. And there's room for everybody as far as I'm concerned. You know, I love some of that stuff. They've got some they've got there's some guys doing some stuff now that's just blow your mind, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, you know, as a I think as a as a sidestep to that, you know, like uh uh Overrinder was telling me that he cuts his springs for his slip joints from from his uh 3D panograph, right? And if you think about it, I mean it's a it's a manual CNC machine.
SPEAKER_01Early CNC right there. That's correct. Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, I mean I I get it. I mean, there's I I don't really knock on technology.
SPEAKER_01Um nope, I'll never do that. But I I don't understand it and I can't do it, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, for sure. But yeah, I don't I don't know. I mean, I I think that that's cool though that like you like introducing people into a craft or whatever and having them uh gain an appreciation for it is cool because um I not so many episodes ago I had Neil Punchard on and he uh he runs the uh catchpit show podcast with uh with uh Mike and and Jason, right? And we were talking more about like some of the history of of different types of knife uh patterns or mechanisms, and you know, like liner locks, uh slip joints or spring knives, uh lockbacks, all of those are actually very old, um uh very old mechanisms. Like they they've been we can see them in in a lot of cases even as far back as the 1600s. So, really, when we talk about like the new liner lock crowd, um especially or frame locks for that matter, because it's really not that much different than a liner lock, um, we're talking about re-igniting a previously used and unpopularized mechanism, right? Right, the same way as slick joints. So, I mean it's it's kind of just like this big this big loop where we go back to making these same type of things, but in a more advanced or um sophisticated manner in some ways, in some ways not so sophisticated. I mean, look at the sh old Sheffield cutlers and some of the exhibition knives. You're gonna see some pretty I love those knives.
SPEAKER_01I I have that Sheffield book. I actually met the guy that wrote that Sheffield book and put it all together. Nice guy. I said, man, mine's got a and it's got a track worn through it. I look at that all the time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I uh yeah, I found one. I I found one on eBay at some point in time, and I I don't know what like it, you know, it recommends things to you now where um where you know if there's a book that comes up that you were previously looking at, it'll tell you if there's another one that shows up. And I I I found another one uh for a steal, and I asked uh Tim Robertson, I was like, hey buddy, I was like, Do you have this book? And he's like, No, I I can't say that I have. So I I want to I think I bought it for like 40 bucks. And I was surprised because you know, I mean, I think Liz price what that was like a hundred or 150 dollars. Um and and gave it to him. And so like, you know, we've we'll like look at those uh those knives and dream about like how to put together some of those uh more complex things. I'm not uh I'm not anywhere near one that's like try to replicate anything in the Sheffield book uh in my in my pocket knife journey, but um some of that stuff is incredible.
SPEAKER_01And there's some guys that are you know, uh Evan Nicolitis is really man, he's been he's been bringing it with that, you know, doing those old patterns out of that Sheffield book. And you know, it it's really been cool to watch, see some of that stuff, see some of those couple of those older patterns come back.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. What I think um uh Evan has a a disposition for that. He seems to be a little bit on the uh meticulous side. And I I just don't know if I could spend all that time trying to re like a replicate it. I mean, look, I mean look at his like hand uh hand filed corkscrews or things like that. I'm just like uh there's no portion of that that I really want to spend the time on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's uh you gotta really want to build something to do it like that, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, yeah, and I mean I don't I don't know if there's enough uh uh there's enough money in it for the time, but I do I there is not. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean I can promise you, yeah, there is not. And even even building a knife like a even a five-blade sow belly or a six-blade sow belly or stockman, there's no money in it. I mean, you know, for what I get for one of those, heck, I could build I I can't even tell you how many single blades I could build in that time and make triple the money, probably. But sometimes you just have to kind of do these things just to show everybody that you can.
SPEAKER_04Well yeah, not only that, but you can only build so many single blades before you get bored with it. And I think that that's probably the that's the driving force for most makers, I think, is like you get an idea in your head, like, hmm, maybe I can do that. It's like your first knives, like what motivated you to do? It's like, oh, I could rather than buy one, I can make one, right? Yeah, and then you're like, well, rather than rather than wonder whether I could build a five-blade sow belly, I'm just gonna make one. And then many, many uh cuss words later, you you realize that you probably shouldn't have uh done it in the first place. But you know, you're already too far along, and you complete the first one, you're like, okay, I'll make another one.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, you have to really kind of hate yourself a little bit too to do any of this. Um because it's a bunch of you know, go slow, go slow, go slow. Oh, I went too far. Remake parts, cuss, repeat. You know? Yeah. I always tell everybody that I have a love-hate relationship with slip joints. You know, I I get to where I I get to where I don't even want to look at them. And that usually lasts me for about I don't know, a couple of minutes, and then I'm you know right back at it again. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, I I think uh it also is that uh I don't know, there's I I think with knives, and I know this is a this exists with a lot of other crafts, but there's always a problem to solve. It doesn't matter, like pretty much from the moment that you start on a knife, it's just problem solving one thing after the other, you know, profiling it, grinding it, surface grinding it, you know, square holes, not square holes, you know, fitting everything together. Like just it's constant. So I mean, if you're if you have a tinkering mind, if you have an inquisitive mind, if you have like just just want to be able to create something and build through it, it uh knives, I mean, they tick all those boxes for me. And what's crazy about it too is like I there's so many additional things about knives that I love. Like I love knife history. I love uh I love uh researching old makers in their work and you know production versus custom and all sorts of stuff, you know, um all the mechanisms, the metallurgy of it. Like just about I mean, you can go down rabbit holes with scrimshaw or engraving or um Damascus uh making, like everything. Like pretty much anything you want to ever do, you could do with knives.
SPEAKER_00That's a fact. That's a fact.
SPEAKER_04So um how many uh how many uh awards do you have so far with a uh blade show? Uh you were you you have was it is it three um best slip joint awards so far?
SPEAKER_01I actually have five.
SPEAKER_04Five?
SPEAKER_01I won I've won uh three at the uh three at the Blade Atlanta, and I won uh Blade West and Blade Texas one time each.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Yeah, it's hard to keep it's hard to keep counting your awards at this point. But you um you you won you won this past weekend uh with a with a lockback Willard, right? Yes, sir. Yeah, I saw a picture of that. That's pretty cool. Uh one thing uh one thing I kind of wish um for those who can't actually attend Blade Show is that uh there was a little bit more like live updates on awards and those uh those shows and things. Uh like the um because you know, like the in in-person classes you can go to and and see, but uh after unless you actually go to Blade Show, you never get uh get to see them again. And it's the same way with awards, like I always look at somebody if somebody is taking pictures there and then post that up to social media, that's the only way I ever actually know about them. So I actually didn't know that I don't I don't think I saw that you won an award. Uh I didn't know what award it was until I actually talked to you after the show.
SPEAKER_01So Yeah. Yeah, well I usually excuse me. I usually only enter into the slip joint category. Uh I did I you know, I I don't know. You go look some of the it it's it's pretty looking through that room and looking on those tables for those knives submitted for judging. It's all you can do not to just put your knife back in your pocket and leave. I mean some of those that some of those knives are just fantastic, you know. There's so many, so many guys doing so much awesome work, you know. It's it's pretty over it can be overwhelming. Even if you've been doing it a long time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. No, I mean I that's the way I feel all the time. I don't think I I think this past no, no, maybe maybe last year, in Atlanta last year, I might have put one blade out for uh the guild awards, but I can't remember. I pretty much just put them back. I'm like, you know what, I'm just not even gonna worry about it.
SPEAKER_01Well, you will one hundred you will not win one hundred percent of the competitions that you don't enter.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I guess that is true. But I mean, uh, I don't know, dude. Like, there's there's a portion of me that is it's not it's not self-deprecating, but it is kind of just like when you when you see a bunch of other um work that's just like phenomenal um work, there's for me it's a it's a respect thing just to say, like, hey, I already know that there's a lot of good winners up here. Like, I I'm fine.
SPEAKER_01I would I tell you what, I would not I would not want to be a judge in that room. You know, I'm not sure there's an amount of money that would make me be a judge in that room, and you know, I I just wow. Too difficult.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah. I mean, I I yeah, I don't I don't get it either. Like I I don't even know understand what what possible criteria you can like develop to be able to judge uh the the variety of work that uh that blade like a blade show or knife shows in general have to adhere to, you know. I mean it's just a really man, it's a really difficult thing to navigate because of so many good makers. And really, you just kind of have to find something.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, do you just find like individual flaws or I think that I think that with knife making though, and even if you're not if you're a student of knife making, if you're if you're an exceptional knife maker yourself, you can look at a knife and if it's got a pin showing, you know that that's not right. If it's got you know, if the blades are crooked or or the swedges are off or the plunges are off. I mean, you know these things, right? I mean so I think that they I think what they must do is just nitpick every single little flaw until they find something that has the least amount of flaws. You know, none of the stuff we ever do is is perfect. Um but I I I think that must that must be the only the only way they can do it. I I I don't know. You know, I I wouldn't I definitely would not want to be in that room as a judge.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. No, I get that. I mean, you're doing something right. I mean when uh when was your first award? I can't remember. Was it 20 was it 2020? 2021? I can't remember.
SPEAKER_01It was the first year that they had the Tony Bose. It was 2021. 2021. Yep. The first year that they had the Tony Bose Best Lip Joint Award.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's quite a few uh accolades in a short period of time, buddy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um it's it's humbling, you know. Uh there's so many great makers, you know, that they I mean when you're when you're a maker, you only see the flaws. You know, I I hate every knife I ever take to any show. And uh I always just whenever I look at them, all I can see is how I should have made them better and how I should have, you know, I should have done this or I should have done that.
unknownYou know.
SPEAKER_01But at some point you just have to set them free. I don't think knife makers ever finish anything. We just give up on it, you know?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, I know. I no, I feel the same way. I don't that is a difficult part. I I I mean, I don't know. I I've met some knife makers that really think that their work is the best in the world. Um, but I'm not I'm just really not that way. Like, I mean, honestly, it's I I look at it and I'm I'm like, man, if I you know spend another 10, 20 hours on this thing or that, then uh maybe it'd be in my mind, it would make it would make sense to uh you know show it off and everything. But I think that you're as an as a knife maker, as a self-conscious knife maker, you're probably just like one one step away from oblivion uh with every knife that you make.
SPEAKER_01So there's definitely room for a lot of overthinking.
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah. But isn't that the way with knives? Like knives is just philosophical. It's pretty basically like I I I don't know whether a knife maker requires therapy uh for making it or if it is therapy for uh you know when you're making knives.
SPEAKER_01Well, depending on what I'm working on at the time, I could argue for both sides.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I don't know, dude. So um what uh I'm I'm interested to know what what's the trajectory for for you and things that you want to uh try? I mean, you know, you obviously are a household name and slip joints. You have the you have the uh camaraderie of the cartel and everything, um the slip joint cartel for everybody who's not aware that uh Luke Swenson is part of that. And uh, you know, you make incredible work. I mean, what what's like the next thing? Like do you have any ideas or things like that that are uh you know pushing the boundaries?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean yeah, there's some there's some things that I would love to try. I want to try to make an automatic I want to try to uh you know, maybe do some of the traditional patterns uh you know, in maybe some ways that people haven't seen, you know, maybe um I wanna I'd really like to maybe at some point I'd really like to try to have some production knives done. Uh you know, I I just I I don't really have a trajectory. I just really plan on getting ready for the next show and trying to fill some of my custom orders and trying to do some new stuff in between as I find it. And you know, there there are some things that I would like to do, you know, like that.
SPEAKER_04One thing I'm I I've always been interested in know, and I mean uh tell me if this is like kind of off base with me to ask, but um in in knife shows I've always been interested in the the selling out component of shows, right? Because it seems like in a lot of ways uh the the tip of the or the the uh the the the goal should be to like you know if you s if you sell out of a show then it's like the the the PA res de resistance of of a knife show, right? But um I've I've also seen you know that you know uh uh some makers will sell some to customers that come through and some to dealers and things like that. Like do you in in selling knives, uh and this is a um this is kind of like for other makers to just like kind of uh test the waters on what what kind of selling do you like? I mean, do you have a recommendation if you're a new newer knife maker on uh maybe some of the way that you should diversify the way that you sell knives?
SPEAKER_01Well, first of all, as far as the selling out component, I rarely sell out at a show. I I don't um I sold out for the first time at the Blade show last year, and then my next sellout was at Blade Texas this year. So I I don't I haven't I don't really a lot of people a lot of people say that they say, Oh man, I was gonna come to your table, but I knew you'd be sold out and I've got three knives laying there. You know, and I'm like, well, I mean I got knives. And a lot a lot of people a lot of people don't like the dealer thing. Um, but what a dealer does for you to me is he take he's gonna ask, or he may not, he's gonna ask for a a certain amount of money to allow him some room for in resale. Well, he's got dealers have an established website that people that already has traffic, you know. So if you're a new guy, then getting a knife, a couple of knives with with some dealers is is a great way to get your name to get that name recognition that that you really have to have, you know. Um I think that everybody would love to you know have people, you know, and I think every all of us would love to have people just standing at our table waiting to buy everything that we put out there at our table price, you know. But that you know, the the in reality, you know, there are some guys that that happens for. Um and that's fantastic, man. Uh but I yeah, I I think you know, you you can't fault a man for going a couple of thousand miles from his house to a show and has knives left and sells those knives at a slight discount to a dealer, you know, to have to make it it makes the show feel like it was worth attending. You know, none of us want to carry knives home. We want to we want we want to take money home. You know, I mean the bottom line is you're you're trying to get out there and sell your knives and make what you love doing productive enough to be successful and not have to do something else that you don't like. I mean, so yeah, I think for a new maker, you know, your your workmanship should always be ahead of your pricing. You know, you you you you should do good work and somebody should say, Man, that was that was a good knife for the money.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01That I mean that those are the things. Put your shop time in, get your work up there, the pricing will follow develop a relationship with at least a couple of dealers that you know that you know get a rip world going with those guys. A lot of those guys will take some of your knives on consignment. I encourage new makers to you know take those opportunities as they come. You know, if if somebody says, well, I could, you know, we don't really know you. You know, your knives look good, but we don't really know you, but we we don't, you know, you your your knife would be one that we would consign. You know, I I did that. I did uh you know, I I typically for a dealer I will you know there's somewhere between 10 and 15 percent would you know would be the the 15, 20, maybe 20 percent. It it just depends. And the way I used to do it is if they were buying more than more than one knife, they would get a 20% discount. So yeah, that that's my thoughts on dealers. I I think they're good overall. You know, if you if you're one of these guys who shows up at a knife show and lets a dealer take all your knives and says, Look, I sold out. Well, that's I mean, kind of defeats the purpose of going to a knife show, right? I mean you still have to have knives for the people that paid their money and stood in line. You you still have to have knives for those folks to see. Yeah, so you have to kind of strike some kind of a balance.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I don't I don't know if in talking to some dealers I've ever had them be uh totally transparent about uh where they grade my my work at. You know, like it's kind of like meh, you know, maybe I'm interested, maybe I'm not. It's like it's either it's a pass or a fail. It's like we can either go with this or we don't. And not I don't usually sit have anybody say, all right, well, let's start start off on consignment and then see where things go. But I mean, I think people have to understand that even dealers, I mean, they're not made of money, they have to make a profit on it and they take a lot of risk on makers. So um I think that it's interesting to me because I know that there's a lot of makers that look at dealers like, well, that that they're like the the bad guys in the relationship. Like I I mean, hear me out here. Like I've heard people say, like, I don't mess with dealers. I'm like, well, I don't really get that. Like, don't mess with dealers. Like, I mean, dealers have a market that is unlike being able just to go directly to shows and and buy it, right? And I've always thought as dealers as like a a different avenue to be able to pull in attention to my work. And so if even if that takes a little bit of uh of off the top and finagling uh to in order to make the numbers look right uh for both like but both parties uh advantage, then that's okay, that's okay. But um but I mean, yeah, they have to make money off the top somehow. Um you know for for for dealers who are buying your work and asking for 20 plus percent and then they're selling it for you know 80% more, and so the the aftermarket cost is higher, maybe, but well one thing you one thing you can a way you can look at that too is if they're if if you're giving them a little a little bit and they're able to bump the price up, then your table price can increase.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, I mean if if they're selling your knives at a 40% markup after you give them 20 off, well then there's you know your prices can go up if they're if they're actually moving your products. Um I I don't know. I've never had a really a negative experience with dealers. You know, I'll even I've seen knives on a on a dealer site, and uh I'll say, hey, bring that knife to Blade Show and I'll swap you out something else. And they'll bring it and leave it with me, and I put it out on the table and they walk away and they don't get 10 steps, somebody comes and buys that knife that they just that they didn't sell on their website, you know. I mean some people absolutely won't buy from a dealer, they only want to buy at the show, which is why I encourage guys, you know, don't get hung up on just the social media sales, they're great. The Instagram thing, I mean, I you know, I I don't I don't always sell out at shows, but I I I usually I I never have knives available because I get I mean I'll get a I'll get five or six Instagram messages for each knife and you know I'll just if it don't sell I'll just pick the first guy and send him a message, hey man, that knife didn't sell. You still want it? Yep, or nope. And if he don't want it, I'll go to the next guy. No hard feelings, no, no worries on my end, you know. Um but yeah, I I I'm the only I was I was joking with my wife at the at the Blade Show that I'm the only maker who doesn't know that he sells out real fast. I guess I mean it's like, oh, I knew you'd be sold out. Well, no, I wasn't sold out. I'm still not.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I get that.
SPEAKER_01Maybe it's an excuse, maybe they don't want to buy one of my knives, and that's fine. You know, if you're out there and you do that, you don't have to make excuses. If you don't want to buy a knife from me, that's quite alright. I don't mind. You can still come by and say hi.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think well, that's that's a that's a thing that's kind of difficult with knives too, is like the the perception versus reality um aspect of it, where you know some people think like they'll talk to you and they'll be like, well, I definitely can't afford one of your knives. I'm like, well, like try me. Like, try me. I got I got I got lots of things that I can make and I got lots of things that I can sell you. So I mean I'm I'm willing to entertain it. Like, don't insult me by saying, like, you know, $150 for a knife that you know clearly my list price is five or six hundred dollars for, but um you know, we can usually work something out. Um and it's like it's it's selling knives too. Like I I how how many times are there missed opportunities because people assume that I I don't know that you're it's not that you're more popular than you you are or whatever, but it's that you don't take into consideration that guests and people who are you know individuals who are wanting to buy knives have a preference over you just unloading them to a dealer because you want money, right? It's more about the personal relationship that you form with your fans and everything. So well, and that's fine.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you know, but you can't fault the man for you know, if if if I go to a knife show and I've been there, you know, if I'm if I'm on my second day and nothing's moved, you can't you you can't fault the guy when a dealer comes by and says, Hey, I'll buy, you know, I'll buy your whole table. You can't fault him for that, you know.
SPEAKER_04Oh no, absolutely. Yeah, I think it's one of those things. I mean, uh it's a it's a tough market, but it's it's and it's a tough industry and it's a tough personal experience with knives. Like I don't I don't know that anybody really gets into it with uh without a little bit of uh uh uh I guess naive notions about how successful they'll be and without a a very swift kick in the shorts on real what reality is. Uh I think you know that's one of the reasons why like I I I'm I try to be pretty candid um with listeners on that because uh I can't tell you how many of the old time old timers are like, well, uh if you're in the knives to make money, then like you know, don't quit your day job or why are you doing this? Because it's a really tough way to make a make a living.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It really is, yeah. You know, the the the guys that do the best, I think, either they're they have a they have a they have a good job themselves that they don't, you know, they don't have to have the money. Because I mean it I can't tell you how long it took me before I sold knives consistently. You know, it was a it was a journey, you know, and it just kind of I just kind of figured it was what it was. You know, I just wanted to build knives. I yeah, I mean selling them was great, but I mean I I gave a lot of knives away. Yeah. You know, I mean that's just it just, you know, it's an I I wish I could understand the dynamic. I wish I could, you know, put a I wish I could put a pin on it and say, this is the deal, this is what you have to do, this is what you know, but man.
SPEAKER_04Well yeah, it's tough. I mean, I at the risk of uh sabotaging my own uh the per the perception of my success. Like I I don't sell uh an exceptional amount of knives very quickly. Like I've never sold out at a show. I I always do okay, with the exception of last year's show circuit was just kind of kind of difficult. I got skunked on a few shows.
SPEAKER_01And um we've all been there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And uh I did one, I did a smaller show this uh year in Oklahoma, and I think I sold one one knife. And normally I can put them up on my website and kind of shop them around, tell everybody about them. But I'll tell you, like most of those knives are still sitting there. And it's surprising to me in some ways because I feel like those knives are like my best work to date, and yet uh some of them just like sit there uh for forever. So um it's it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01I tell you what, I had I had I I took a knife to Solvang this year that I thought was the absolute best I had ever built. And you know, I thought I I thought it was my best knife ever. And uh man, nobody bought it in Solvang. And it was the very last knife that I sold Saturday afternoon, and you know, and it didn't go to a dealer, it went to a collector, and uh it was that same, oh heck, I thought I thought I thought all your knives were gone. I thought, man, who who's telling these people that I don't have any knives left? I'm gonna slap the crap out of them if I find them. But yeah. So anyway, yeah. Go by anyway. If you think a maker sold out, but you haven't asked him at that show, just go by and just go by and say hello. You never know. Hey, I'm just as happy for a guy, you know, a guy that follows me on Instagram or a guy that you know is in the Facebook group or whatever, man. I'm just as happy for the go those guys to come by and shake hands, you know, and and laugh a little bit and have a good time. And you know, that that's the that's the best thing about knife shows. I mean, if you sell knives, that's just kind of like icing on the cake, you know.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. Well, you know, some something that I think is uh important to note for everybody is I I really appreciate the consistency with all of you guys in the cartel. And I because I'm gonna say this because you you all share a very similar vein where it doesn't matter whether you've sold all the knives on your table, you guys. Stick out the show, right? I see some knife makers that they put a sold out uh side on their table and they bounce. And you know, they go home or they spend their time doing other things or sightseeing or whatever. But one thing I've always really appreciated about that is that you respect not only the venue by sticking around, but you also respect um the people who might want to come and just talk to you and everything. And that's been an incredible uh like I mean you, like I ever every time I've seen you stuck around in times when it's been slow, when it's been fast-paced, and everybody gets an equal opportunity to be able to like meet you and talk to you and everything. And I that's something that I think that everybody needs to know. Like, go go talk to Luke, go talk to Robertson, uh Tim Robertson, go talk to Bill Ruppel. I mean, all of them are sitting at their tables waiting for you to talk, and it doesn't matter whether they've sold out or not, they don't have to be there, they want to be there.
SPEAKER_01I I kind of feel like, you know, I kind of feel like putting a sold out sign on your on your table and then and then leaving. I feel like you don't you're not standing up to you made a contract with the show promoter to bring knives to your table to display, but that's not you you agree just to be there, you know, for a certain amount of time. Now, if you got to fly home or something like that, that's not that's different, you know. If you have to take out a couple hours early because you got to get to the airport, that that's not the same thing as just taking all your stuff and leaving altogether, you know. And uh, I don't know, and you know, Bill had he he said that too. He said, those show promoters, you know, they there's a lot of work that goes into putting on a show, a lot of money spent, and a lot of you know, a lot of a lot of man hours, a lot of coordination has to go on. So, you know, asking you to sit there till two o'clock on a Sunday is not that big a deal, you know. Can't dance, you might as well sit there and talk about knives.
SPEAKER_04Right. But I I I knew I think that's important. Um I I mean I I respect it a lot, and I think that um I think that especially like Blade Blade Show and these other venues do too, because if you just sold out, um if you sold out and bounced, I honestly don't know why you go to the show in the first place because a lot of people can find a way to do that online, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure. I I I'm pretty sure that I could sell every knife online that I take to a show. Um you know the the admin. I I'm not a I'm not a tech guy. I don't I'm lousy at my Facebook group, I'm worse at my Instagram page, I don't go live, I don't do a lot of videos, you know. I I wish I I wish I would do all those things. I wish I understood that. Um but uh you know with with the advent of the social media, it really it it changed it changed my knife making completely. Because now you've got an audience of, you know, you got three or four thousand followers, whatever you got. I don't know how many other knives. But one of those people is probably gonna want one of those knives. You know, and um and I've met some really cool folks via the Instagram and the Facebook group, and you know, guys that are that if they never buy a knife from me again, they can still come to my house and eat barbecue, you know, drink whatever my best liquor, whatever I've got, you know. They're just I've just when I first started this, I did I didn't know anything about custom knives, and by that first year's end, all of my friends were basically knife makers.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, I think uh I think I got divorced and I got remarried, and most of my our our mutual friends chose my wife, uh ex-wife for some reason, and so I really didn't have that many friends. I was like, you know, whatever, I don't care about Facebook anyhow. And now if you look at it, most of my friends are knife makers.
SPEAKER_01Heck, the guys I used to hunt with uh the guys I used to hunt with and go fishing with, they didn't even miss me. They just got a new guy with a truck that looked like mine. They would show up the first of the year for me to sharpen their hunting knives, though.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Uh yeah, loyalty is a fickle thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a fact. That's a fact.
SPEAKER_04So um, Luke, I I typically ask this at the end, but um uh of an interview. I'm interested to know, like, if you could like summarize uh some advice for like new makers or established makers, like something that you find important about like your journey and something you want to impart onto others. Like I I know that you you are just really very open with everybody that you talk to, but is there anything specifically that you'd uh you'd focus on if you're a new maker or a uh uh an up and coming?
SPEAKER_01Yes. There's there the thing and I I learned this, I learned this from Bill, and he said the customer is always right even if they're wrong. And and here even and here's what he meant. You can do 10,000 good things and nobody will know about it, but you pull one you pull one move, and your reputation is gone. And it's too small a world. The knife community and the knife, the custom knife world is too small to have you know any of those kinds of things hanging on you. So, you know, the customer's right. Whatever it takes to make that person happy, you have to do it. That and put your shop time in. There's no shortcut, there's no magic wand you can wave and you know be able to make knives. You just have to work. That's it.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's all uh that's all really good advice. I mean, I really I really think I agree with that on both counts. So um I don't know, bud. You want to talk about anything else? You're more than welcome to, but I know I've gone a little bit over time, so uh I could just as easily talk to you for another few hours, but yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01You ought to you're gonna have to come up to North Idaho sometime. We'll build something cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'll uh get my skis on and uh head up there.
SPEAKER_01You know, it doesn't snow here, it's it's 85 degrees here right now. It doesn't snow here all year round.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's interesting. I mean I mean how do winters get pretty cold?
SPEAKER_01It yeah. This year uh was our where it was our hardest winter. We had uh we got down to negative in November, got snow, and it didn't leave until probably late April.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's a rough one. Well, yeah, I'll try to I'll try to make it up there sometime. I'm I'm hoping that I can get some travel time in this year. So if it's not maybe not this year, then next year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Next year, next year might even be a little bit better. Yeah, that'd be cool. And uh Yeah. Are you gonna are you planning to do Blade West or Blade Texas? I you'll do Blade Texas, right?
SPEAKER_04Um I I given up my table uh for this year, last year, because I just decided to mostly not do any shows this year. Um I'm on the waiting list. I'm on the waiting list. So if uh they can wiggle me in, then I'll I'll be there next year.
SPEAKER_01Or Texas or for Texas. Okay, cool. Yeah, I'll be in uh I'll be in Blade West in October next. That's my next show.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04Well, uh yeah, I have I Mike the company I work for full-time uh is up in Utah. Uh so maybe I can like uh squeeze up there for a few days and come to the show too. But I'll have to just kind of see what the uh agenda looks like for the rest of this year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man, that'd be cool. Be good to see you again.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely, man. Well, uh, thanks again. I really appreciate you spending your time and sharing your knowledge and heart with us. And uh, you know, anytime you want to come on the show, you're you're a guest. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Hey, man, I'm honored to have you on the show. I appreciate it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely, bud. Well, you have a good good evening, and we'll talk again.
SPEAKER_01Okay, brother. Talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for listening to another episode of the Good Old Blades Podcast. Remember that you are loved and God bless.
