SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to the Good Old Blades Podcast. I am your host, Aaron LeVere. And join me as we talk to other knife makers and crafters about everything and everything done. Thank you for listening in to another episode of the Good Old Blades Podcast. I am your host, Aaron LeVere, and I am joined by Jake McCoy, one of the real McCoys. How are you doing, Jake?

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Hey Aaron, how are you doing? Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yeah, absolutely. So for uh for anybody who doesn't know, uh Jake McCoy uh uh operates McCoy Blade Works and is a phenomenal knife maker, up and coming, I would uh I would argue, and comes from a uh a really great lineage of of knife enthusiasts, collectors, makers, and uh for anybody who didn't know, yes, McCoy uh from the Hatfield and McCoy lineage, right? Uh right, Jake?

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Yes, sir. That's what we just talked about before we got on. Uh yeah, I'm I'm uh eighth-generation McCoy family.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Um so customary for the show, I want to know a little bit about you and your family outside of uh outside of knives. So if you want to uh just give me a kind of rundown of who you are, what your life is like, what your hobbies are outside of knives, so on and so forth, uh you know, you just tell me what you want to.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Okay, so I guess I'll start uh I'll start from the beginning. Um so I I'll kinda I guess I'll kind of do an origin of how I got into knife making uh and everything, my life leading up to all this. Um so I was born and raised in in a small town in Georgia called uh Harris County, Harris County, Georgia, right next to Columbus, Georgia. And um I lived in Columbus, lived in Harris County all the way up until I was 17 years old. Um and up until then, up until I was 12 years old when I first got into knives. And my great-grandfather who passed two months ago was actually a knife maker himself. So I've always been into always been into knives. Um always always wanted to be in the knife industry. And there was one day that my dad, it most people don't know this. My dad worked at ATT when he was 18 years old. He got a job at ATT and worked there for 20 years. Um and he we lived down here, and I asked him one day I saw the I saw the biggest knife show in the world was going on an hour and a half north of us in Atlanta, and I begged him uh for his day off of work if we could go there for a day and uh go to Blade Show. So my first show was when I was 12. And um I've been obsessed with knives ever since. Um I've had made a ton of a ton of great friends to the knife industry, and over the years, you know, I I'd worked when I was 12, I'd I got a summer job with my cousin doing lawn maintenance to try and afford knives. And when I first got into it, I I started buying production knives here and there. And then uh by the time I was 13, 14, I was saving up for 400, $500 knives just because I'd save up all the money I made over the summer and stuff like that. Um and when I got when I turned 17, that is when I have a really good friend. Most of y'all probably know him as uh Sebastian Bringy at Borca Blades. Um, but I'd met him when I was 13 years old. He had a YouTube channel named uh SIBO Strip. It's actually still up if you go on YouTube, but I followed a lot of his like knife reviews and everything like that. He reviewed a lot of the old school uh, well, like the the early 2000s popular knife makers. He he worked with John Gray a lot and worked with uh Gavco and and was really good friends with Dal Bohr Bergham and stuff. So um I would always watch his YouTube videos and all the reviews that he had did, and I met him in person and we had been friends for for several years. Um and at Blade Show, when I was, I believe, 15 or 16, um, we had met uh the Marfion family that that owns Microtech knives. And after about a close to a year of consistently, we would my parents would would put in the effort. Um, I was offered to be an apprentice at Microtech and learn how to be a knife maker. And we would make my parents every other weekend would make five and a half hour trips up to up to uh Hendersonville, North Carolina, and I would learn how to make knives and do all that. And then um my dad was offered more than AT ⁇ T was paying him to run Microtech social media. So um my family, when I was 17, we moved up to North Carolina and I worked for Microtech for five years, and I left. So I did a lot at Microtech. I learned how to uh grind. I worked under under Sean Marfion, who grinds all the blades there. That's uh that's Anthony Marfion, the owner's son. Um he grinds all the Marfion custom blades. So um towards the last year, year and a half working there, I would grind all the, I would rough grind all the blades, and me and him would go back and forth. Um I also made a ton of sheaths at Microtech. I did all the well, there's three guys that do all the um the handwork at Microtech doing hand-rub satin blades, mirror polish blades, stuff like that. Um I worked there doing that for a while and did processing, did all the fit and finish work, tumbling, um, all of that. So anodizing, uh etching Damascus, all of that kind of work. So I worked there for five years, and then um when I got to the point where I felt like I was ready, I left, and that was May of 2020, I believe. I think May of 2020. Either 2020 or 2021. I don't know, my years are running together. Um so I left, I left Microtech and um started out making fixed blades and lived in North Carolina for about another year. And my dad, um my my dad, my parents moved down to Gainesville, and I'd actually reconnected with a girl I knew since elementary school. She lived down in Miami, Florida. My wife Kagan, um, I'd reconnected with her, and then I moved down to Miami. So um I lived down in Miami for over a year and apprenticed under another one of my really good friends that I've known uh since I was 13 years old, Edison Brajas of uh Shark Nivco. So I would take hour-long trips up to his shop, and um we figured out that we were having having a baby January of last year. So I would take hour-long trips up to his his shop and and work out of his shop and make knives and stuff like that too. And I also worked out of a storage unit. Um, for anybody that knows in South Florida, Oakland Park, right next to right next to Fort Lauderdale. I had a I had a shop in the hood in Oakland Park. Um the um the cost for for any kind of industrial building was just ridiculous down there. So uh I made knives out of there, traveled, learned how to make folders for medicine, and finally um started making folders. Um and the I finished my first folder the last day that we were actually moving back to Georgia. So we moved in January this year back to Georgia, back to my hometown in Harris County. Um, so that's where we're living now, and I'm currently making folders.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

That's a pretty exciting uh journey. Um I I noticed that your your wife and you have a uh a really interesting dynamic with uh the way that you handle social media and everything like that. And uh my my understanding is like some of your social media like group and everything is fairly new compared to um how long you've been making and selling knives. Can you talk a little bit about uh your I guess launch into social media and what what you guys have kind of been doing?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Right. So I've I've had Instagram since I was like 13 years old, and I would just post here and there whenever I got the chance. You know, I I used to be one of those people that was very adamant, like I had to post stuff and I had to do this. And then I got to the point where I was working so hard, you know, I really couldn't couldn't keep up with all of it, and I was just making knives as I go and I would I would post them here and there. Um, but I've only really had Instagram up until this point. Um, and then it got to the point where I d I don't know if uh most people know about you know shadow banning and stuff like that. I would make a knife post and it would, it would, wouldn't get any any kind of recognition in a way. So, but I'd heard from a lot of my friends that ran uh Facebook, my really good friend David Mayer, that runs uh the ancient city continental on Facebook and everything like that. He was telling me about how well Facebook does and how well Facebook does with groups and everything like that. Um so a few months ago I started a Facebook group and it grew to about 400 members um within the first like month or so. And it was it was doing pretty well. And then my wife, um she she was a server down in South Florida, she worked at a place called Yard House, and she worked her butt off um all the way up until 13 days before she had our son. Um but after after she uh after we moved up here, you know, she decided she was gonna be a stay-at-home mom and everything like that. And she was like, you know, I can run all the social media, I can run the Facebook for you and stuff like that. And um she ended up uh taking over the Facebook page, and within probably two or three weeks, it ended up going from 400 members to almost 2,000 now. So it's yeah, it shot up really fast because of because of her. She has done a she has done a really good job with it. Um, but also because of my really good friends John Nomakos and uh and David Mayer, too, a huge shout out to them because um because they've also helped run the Facebook group really well. And but as soon as she got a hold of the page, you know, she just started making posts and uh and started inviting more people, and you know, it's it's taken off pretty well. So I'm I'm really happy with how it's been so far. Um we always joke because every time she makes a post, she'll get like 400 comments. She'll literally get get so many people. She's like, she's like, I got more attention on on your group than you do. But no, she she does really good with it. I'm really uh I'm really proud of her. I'll I'll send her work in progress pictures from the shop and and she'll post them up, and and she does a really good job at responding to everybody. And um, you know, that's that's what I've I've mentioned this before, but it's so great getting all of the messages that we do. And it gets so overwhelming to where you know responding to people, it's it's it's crazy how many messages you get on a daily basis um for people that that are interested in my work and stuff like that, but it's it's an honor to have so many people that want a knife and you know that just want to participate and be a part, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah, yeah. Well, I uh in preparation for uh your interview and everything, because you know, I I I I watch a lot of knife makers um just as part of so I'm a custom knife maker, I watch a lot of other guys' works and guys and gals, and uh just uh tried to appreciate what uh individual makers are bringing to the table because that's something that interests me. And so when I saw uh I I think your wife uh invited me to your group, and I I've been watching you guys and realized that I knew so uh very little about you before she invited me to your group, and now it's just like this uh this flower opens up, and I'm like, oh, that's like you're what you're doing is really cool. I really like your work. Um y'all's dynamic and family dynamic is really cool. And I started asking around about you, and uh uh Jim Skelton uh had uh him and I are buddies in the guild and uh have worked on doing stuff, yeah. And uh uh he was like, I I love I love his like that family. Uh you guys are just always super nice and almost break his ribs with hugs and stuff at blade shows.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So he was on it was when he was uh selling watches on TV, and I think I joined a live video and he shouted me out on that live video, and I was like 15 years old, and I was having like a moment because I was such a big fan of him on YouTube. So uh yeah, Jim's a Jim's an awesome guy.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah, I well I think that one thing that's interesting about Jim too is uh he for me he's never held back opinion on things that I've asked him about with my knives critiquing or otherwise. Um but he's also very encouraging. It's like hey, this is this is where I see that there might be some problems, uh but uh but like you got this, like you do these things, and I think that you uh you'll you know take it a lot further. And so I've always appreciated that insight from him. But he is really like a sweet man and uh and really just likes to uh pay homage to people who are uh you know impress him and and everything and inspire him. So I uh yeah, I talked a little bit about you and your work to him and uh and been looking around in other places. So I actually really appreciate what you guys are doing with your social media because I feel like um it's easy when you're in the show circuit. Um because there's there's it's like what what you what you're seeing in your social media right now is basically the same kind of thing that happens at shows. Right. Where you know you get around, you talk to old buddies, you know, people will comment on things, give feedback or whatever. You know, you just like it kind of like riding this uh this wave of euphoria and excitement. Uh that's what the show circuit is. Um and I don't know that you know for for people who haven't especially been to the the mecca of knife shows uh and Blade Show Atlanta, they wouldn't necessarily know, but that's that's kind of what the hub hub is. Like it's uh it's really just a a place where even if you've met somebody for the first time, it's a a commune of old friends, it seems, and that's kind of what I like about the like the big shows.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Right. And plus everybody shows up there. And like I said, my my first blade show and I was when I was 12 years old, so it's kind of funny getting the um that was this year will be my 10th or 11th blade show. 11th blade show. So I I even get comments of people being like, you know, I remember when you were this tall. I remember when you were a little skinny kid, you know. And uh, so yeah, it's it's it's absolutely like family. There's there's been people that have been in this industry um that I've been such good friends with and you know, ever. And there was there was almost this group of knife makers that were coming up that are now like that now have these insane companies and great demands and stuff like that. You know, when I when I came to my first show, um, like I said, I was more in a production, my first show, my second blade show. I'd gotten into customs and I met um Edison and his brother Victor for the first time. They he had just started becoming a knife maker. Um the first person I ever talked on the phone with. So my parents, this is how my parents got it got a social media. So um I was I was talking on the phone one night to a like a 40-year-old man, and my parents were like, Who are you talking to over Instagram? I was like, Well, I was calling him and I was like, Oh, it's my friend Ramon Chavez. He's a great knife maker and stuff like that. I I remember uh I was there the first year that Ramon had his table and um and his knobs just blew up and everything like that. But um, I also worked when I was 15, 16, I worked, I worked at Blade Show and in Vegas at Ramon's table. Um, so the Chavez family's awesome too, and it's yeah, it's crazy. Um it's crazy like almost growing up in this industry, you know, being able to have people that are that are family to me is really awesome.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah. Uh do you ever feel like your uh parents were uh uh overprotective of you uh going and doing this this kind of stuff? I mean you I I I can only think about like uh being a dad and if they were like, oh hey, I want to go out to the to the movies with a group of friends. I'm like, uh, I don't know if I'm okay with that based on who your friends are. I like I need to know them, right? But you have like you who like you know you're in this knife community, everything. And they they're take I guess there there has to be a lot of trust or a lot of observation in order to make sure you're not just uh handing your kid over to uh uh to a bunch of wolves because I mean I know like like the knife industry can get pretty rowdy too. I mean it's like uh and being a kid. So like what what was your experience with like your parents and how they helped to enable you into this world? Like, do you do you feel like they were um protective at all or were they pretty cool about it, or how how did they handle it?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

So, like I said, when I when I first started, when I was talking to Ramon for the first time, they they were like, Okay, he's talking to a grown man on the phone, like we gotta get like some kind of social media presence and be able to like you know not stalk what I'm doing. My parents have never been been that kind of been in any way overbearing, but they were like, we want to make sure he's you know not doing anything crazy. So um they once they went to Blade Show for the first time, and uh the first year was me and my dad going, and then the the second year was uh my entire family went, and we actually stayed for the entire weekend and everything like that. Um, but once they met everybody in person, they knew that this was a great group of people, you know. And like like you said, getting getting rowdy, it's funny because that when I was younger, one of the things I looked forward to the most, and I've never drank, I've never smoked, I don't have anything against people that do, but I've I've never done any of that. And but the number one thing I would look forward to out of anything at the show was the pit because you could talk to everybody, you know, you could hang out with everybody, it's like a big party. So I would stay, I would stay out in the pit up until like two or three o'clock in the morning. I would be one of those psychopaths. Um, but but yeah, I would I would stay down there as a kid. My parents would be uh go up to the hotel room and pass out, but I would stay down there for the longest time and uh and and hang out in the pit and talk to everybody. But yeah, my parents at first, when whenever they realized how great the knife community is, you know, they were uh completely trusting of of me being in an industry like this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yeah. Well, I mean, and anybody who sees your parents, especially your dad, should probably should be a little bit concerned with how like uh uh uh twig-like the rest of us are in comparison to him and his bodybuilding. So like if you're if you're ever interested on social media, you can see his dad and just uh don't mess with his kids because he's a big guy.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

He he's a lot he's a lot tougher than he looks.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Well, kind of on that note, like so I was looking through uh your Instagram and everything back, and you and you you did some uh bodybuilding and competing and things like that too, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yes, sir. So I've I've always been into um I've always been into MMA, the whole MMA world, stuff like that. I grew up around that. So um when I was a kid, I did jujitsu, and then all throughout high school I wrestled. Um and then my senior year of high school, um, so this kind of connects to moving to North Carolina. Whenever we were moving to North Carolina was my junior year of high school, and I had to decide um because I knew that I was gonna be working at Microtech uh apprentice and learning how to be a knife maker. And I was like, you know, if I want to make this my future, it's either this or wrestling. And I was good at wrestling, but the school I was going to, my junior year of high school, didn't even have wrestling available at that school. It was a really small school and everything. So um, so I was pretty much out of wrestling. Uh and then I kind of wanted to find something else to be able to do in the meantime that I could control, you know, and uh that's when I started getting into bodybuilding. So my first show, my first bodybuilding show was when I was 18, and then my second one was 19. I hadn't competed since. Um I'd be it'd be better for me not to since my son was born. I have a dad bot now. But but um yeah, I've actually I've I lost a lot of weight because um I was when I most people from Blade Show know. Me from when I was 120 pounds all the way up until my sophomore year of high school, I was 120 pounds, and I was really I was always really skinny and stuff like that because I always made weight for wrestling. And then um when I got older, I ended up wanting to do bodybuilding. And my first show, I think I was like 155 or something. I was an extremely heavy 155. But um, and then this past year I got up to I got up to 220. And then now I'm like 185 because ever since Roman's been born, uh, I haven't really I haven't went to the gym. I haven't, it's been about eight months since I haven't went to the gym and and uh you know I've set that to the side, but I'm not I'm not too concerned about it because I know I can always get back to it. You know, I'm I'm 23 too, so I'm uh I know I'd rather be present as a father and and and do that than than have to worry about you know getting a meal in at this time, meal prepping 24-7, going to the gym at certain times. But um, I've just now started going back to the gym after after about eight months, so it feels good.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Yeah. Well, or you could uh wait until you get towards uh my age and then you just naturally gain weight. You don't even have to worry about it like that. You could get to 225 super easy. Yeah, so uh I I'm interested to know, so you were in into fixed blades and you switched into I I guess uh you're you're primarily focusing on is frame locks, right? Yes, sir. And um what what made you uh make that transition from uh fixed blades to pocket knives?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

So I I've always wanted to make folders. That was kind of the goal um from the start. I've always wanted to make folders, and um whenever I left Microtech, you know, I didn't I had no knowledge of how to make folders really, not really by hand, but I did know how to make fixed plates. So as soon as I left Microtech, um I kind of stuck with what I knew. And you know, I knew how to grind, I knew how to do fit and finish work, I knew how to do contouring, I knew how to do all that stuff, so and I knew how to make sheaths. So every every little little job that I had uh when I worked there, I kind of learned how to make fixed blades off of that. Um so as soon as I left there, that's what I started with. And then um, like I said, when I when I moved down to Florida um about two years ago now, as soon as I moved down to Florida, I I didn't even know Edison lived down there. And we had started talking, and he was like, he was like, Yeah, you should come to my shop sometime. And I was like, where you at? And he was like, I'm literally an hour north of you. And uh so and his brother Victor lived in uh in Sunrise, so he lived like 20 minutes away from me, but he's a full-time pastor, so he's he was uh he's always busy here and there and stuff like that, and I never wanted to wanted to bother him with coming over to his house and everything. But Edison does knife making full time. Um, so I was making trips up there, and Edison is the one who taught me how to make folders 100% by hand. Um, everything that I've done up until this point, which after Blade's show, it'll officially be 11 folders, I think I've done. So I've just started. But um everything that I've done is based off of the notes that I took at Edison's shop. So I I wrote everything down, uh, took pictures of everything, um, took notes of every single bit of it, and that's how I learned how to make folders. So I made made my first knife in his shop, and then when I moved up here, I started uh I hit the ground running pretty much, wanted to make as many as as good of folders as I possibly can.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Yeah. So uh my understanding, so you're doing you're doing uh knife making full-time, right? It's not it's not a part-time gig for you, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yes, there is full-time.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yeah. So um when when you uh started doing all the stuff with your wife and social media, how did that uh change like your your books and everything? Like are you are are you making uh specifically to distribute at shows and with uh dealers, or um do you keep books or kind of what's your sales process?

SPEAKER_01 26:22

So we started um I didn't really I would kind of make knives as I go whenever I had fixed blades. You know, I just post them up for sale and stuff like that. Um, but as soon as I started making folders, I got I think it was like 20 something names on a on a book spot for a lot of my friends that wanted wanted folders and stuff. But um as soon as the Facebook group blew up, uh I put I made a post. I was like, okay, I'm gonna end up opening up book spots um and having stuff available to people. And um as soon as I posted that, it got up to about a hundred names, and I had to close it really fast because it was stuff over and um I had to close it. So um as far as book spots go, I I have those. I have it up to about a hundred names, uh, and I'll be fulfilling that as I go and also doing shows. Um, so I'll be making enough knives to bring to Blade Show. Uh I'm I'm bringing six folders to to this year's Blade Show, and two of them are gonna be uh deliveries, two people that are on my book spots. Um, and the other four will be on the table. One will be an auction, one two will be lotto, and another one. Uh thinking about doing a raffle on another one so uh maybe people will be able to get a good deal on a on a disciple folder.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Yeah, that'd be interesting. Um so what what would you say in uh the the learning curve uh has been into uh transitioning from uh fixed blades to folders? Like what's what are some of your largest challenge points with uh making that transition?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Oh it's a it's a whole different world of you know I I don't want to like over overcomplicate it and and say it's like extremely hard because it's not really most of most of everything that's that's different between fixed blades and folders is just is mostly basic math, you know. But um it's definitely been a been a slow process. I I'm really meticulous with with my work and everything. So my first folder took me like a month to make because I wanted to be as as um precise as possible, you know, and I didn't I didn't want to put out I I hold my work to really high standards because you know working at Microtech and and seeing that kind of level work and then be apprenticing under Edison and and seeing his work, you know, I didn't want to I didn't want to um short myself with coming out with folders, you know, I wanted to go go all in and come out with something that was um that was that people would be interested in, you know. So the learning curve as far as uh for the most part, um I wouldn't say there's anything that's extremely hard. Lock and detent's pretty scary. Lock's not that hard anymore to me. The detent are setting the detents pretty uh a challenge for me as of right now. Um something very specific, but um the same principles are there, you know, grinding, uh fit and finish work, hand contour, and stuff like that. It's the same variables, which is really uh which is really good. But um I do everything by hand on a on a 1950s uh rockwell mill. So all drilling all the holes and everything by hand and and doing all that. So nothing is there's no uh CNC machine involved or anything, so it's a it's a good bit of work.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yeah, I mean it's uh I'm I I've been like looking over some of your work. I I have to say, like, I really enjoy your aesthetic. Um it's just you know, there's there's something about the way uh that you make your folders that uh is very eye-appealing to me. Like, do you where do you feel like you're pulling uh most of your inspiration for your for your design and and material uh choices and things like that?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

So as far as folders go, um my main inspiration for that was um for anybody listening that knows uh Edison makes a knife called the Waka. And I really wanted so I I really have always loved the idea. I've never owned one, but I've always loved the idea of the Sabenza, of how simple the design is. Um it's literally like the most basic streamlined knife you could imagine for an EDC knife, you know. And uh so I've always loved that idea of creating a very simple design and executing it very well. So um I took a lot of inspiration from from um you know just having the idea of trying to create the most simple thing possible. And the the original drawing for my first folder, which is a disciple, that was um that was done on a piece of paper. Like all of my folder drawings and everything, I just started on a piece of paper. Um, and I brought it to Edison's shop one day, and I was like, You think I can make this? And and he was like, Yeah, and he uh he knows how to use fusion and everything like that. So he programmed it into fusion and um he machined out a template for me. So um it's basically basically just the shape of the knife where you have all the holes uh to know where to drill, the lock bar cut out, the backspace or the clip screws, stuff like that, and then uh the blades so you can trace out the shape and get it as as close as possible on every knife to to replicate it. Um, but yeah, after after we were going over stuff in the computer, um, I was pointing stuff out, and he was pointing stuff out to change, and then by the time it was done, I was like, Edison, that looks a lot like a walker, that looks a lot like one of your knobs, and he was like, I don't care, you have my permission to make it. But that was one of the the main people I've taken influence from is Edison um as far as folders go. And then as far as fixed blades, um, I've had a lot of people that have helped me along the way. I've had uh Bastian Covez of Bastinelli Knives, he's helped me a ton. Um, so I've taken a lot of a lot of inspiration from my fixed blades from him. Um Sebastian at Borca Blades, I've taken a lot of inspiration from him as well. And as far as fit and finish work and attention to detail, um that 100% goes to Edison and then the guys that helped me at Microtech, you know, they um they definitely held me to a really high standard as well. Um the guy that that is the the head of the department that does all the handwork, the hand finishing and everything. His name's Brendan Riley. Um he taught me to do all the hand rub satin finishes, mirror polish blades, stuff like that. Um Sean Marfion taught me how to grind. And then um Jeff Yang and Brad Arnold, they work in the customs department for um all the all the handwork, all the anodizing, all the esch, and all the assembly for all the custom knives, stuff like that. So they both taught me a ton when I was there as well. So um yeah, I've I've I've got my knife making uh attributes, I guess, from a lot of people, a lot of different people that have that have helped along the way. And then uh TJ Marfion as well of Heretic Knives, he didn't, he only lived two hours away from me um when I lived down in Miami. So I would drive two hours up, and this was before I knew how to sharpen. He would he would sharpen my knives for me, and he would also laser the logo on the blades because I didn't have access to a laser at the time. So um TJ helped me a ton as well, and he taught me how to him and Bastion both taught me how to sharpen and everything. So I learned a lot of a lot of different uh techniques from a lot of different people, but I think that's I think that's the goal is to to learn, you know, the best techniques that work for you and combining them all together to be well-rounded, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Yeah. So what what was the inspiration for the uh the name of your blade, the disciple?

SPEAKER_01 34:55

So um all of my all of my fixed blades and all of my folders have uh biblical backgrounds. So every one of them, uh my first knife was the Genesis, and then my second knife was the Exodus, and then people were asking me if my third knife was gonna be the Leviticus. Um, but I didn't I didn't know if that would fit a knife name too great. Um, but yeah, all of all of my knives have have biblical background, some kind of biblical background to it. Um, you know, I have have these little fixed blades called Waymakers, um, and then the disciple, and then um yeah, so that's that's all I can think of off the top of my head. The one knife I made that didn't have a biblical reference was a Cyrax, and that was a Mortal Kombat reference. But other than that, that's that's the main idea for most of my knives. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Uh I mean what I I think the one thing that impresses me about you is that you are really kind of like the embodiment of a disciple, right? Like you take you take this raw passion as a young, young, impressionable child, and you just surround yourself like by a bunch of people that are just willing to willing to help you and uh you know willing to uh show you the ropes and everything and give you the opportunity opportunity and you soak that up and you turn that into what you're doing like now. I mean, so what is what is what better uh reference is that than uh of being a disciple? You know, you're carrying a lot of this knowledge and doing your own thing.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

So that was a that was a really good interpretation of that. I never even thought about it that way.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Well, um uh you know uh something that interests me, um I I don't think that I can recall a time when I was a kid that that knives were uh like this that I didn't interpret them the same way that you you have, right? Like we used them as tools, and I was uh they were just always around. Uh but it it it really took me as an adult to look at it and say, hey, this is pretty cool. I don't want to spend a ton paying for other knives, uh so I'm going to make try making them myself, right? It's more of like the uh economics of knife making, uh, which is a losing effort. Like, I mean I've spent way more on knives than if I would have just gone ahead and bought some custom jobs. Like the the the thing is, is like um what like did you just always know from like the time that you were getting into it that that's what you wanted to do, or what was your like if you can recollect, like what were your thoughts on on knives at the time? Is is this where you wanted to be?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

I I really since I was 12, you know, I I used to competition shoot. So um going back before that, actually, this is how I funded my my knife collection to start with. So um when I was when I was like four years old, and I'd had family members pass stuff down to me and stuff like that, but I collected coins and I collected coins all the way up until I was um I was like 10, 11 years old. And then I sold all of them because I'd gotten into competition shooting. So I sold um all of them for eleven thousand dollars. Well, most of my coin collection and everything, and that's what funded my competition shooting to begin with. And then um after I kind of got out of competition shooting, I'd gotten into knives when I was 12. And that's that's what I've been that's what I've wanted to do since that age, you know. I've I've always felt called to called to do this and um be in this industry. And um, you know, even at that age, I like I said, my my great-grandfather was a knife maker and had a knife shop um actually that was that he had made out of his old house. So they built a house on top of the hill where they lived, and their old house he turned into partly a knife shop. So on the same land. So um, if you were to go to my great-grandparents' house today, my my great-grandfather's uh knife shop is still in there. He has belt grinders, everything like that. But um, you know, I think growing up around that environment always kind of put it into my head that that was something really cool. And then um I think the real kind of obsession started when my dad one day gave me a bitch made griptilian. Um, and that's kind of the first like real knife that I ever had. And as soon as I got that, I just got obsessed with wanting to to collect knives. Um, you know, and then after after a couple months, I wanted to, I wanted to learn how to make them. You know, I'd sent, um, there's there's actually a picture on on my Facebook group of me holding an uh an SA5, and I'd written a letter to a few knife companies um and drawn it on a piece of uh a piece of notebook paper, well, a few pieces of paper, and wrote a letter to them asking if they wanted to to use one of my designs to make to make for uh for their own stuff. I was like, you know, I don't care about profit or anything. I just think it'd be cool to design a knife and stuff. But um, yeah, I've that's something I've wanted to do for the longest time, and and seeing it finally come to fruition and being able to be a knife maker, you know, it's kind of it's kind of shocking to me because, you know, and I and I've mentioned this on my Facebook group before, it's gotten so overwhelming that I'm starting to see knives go for more than what I sold them for and stuff like that, and like uh secondary market come out, and then all these people like wanting to want to get a knife get a knife from me and stuff like that. And you know, I'm like I don't feel entitled to any of this, so it's insane being in the industry since I was 12 years old and now seeing everything come to fruition and so many people supporting what I do is just like insane to me and it's so overwhelming. But um, yeah, I I love what I do to the to the furthest extent. I love it. I love knife making, I love the process of it. Um and I love the people in the knife industry. It's it's without a doubt the most welcoming group of people in the in the world.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Yeah, well, I mean, and and like even really not knowing you very long and everything, I'm I'm really proud of you. Like I mean, it's it's one of those things where it's when you see people that are really passionate, right? When you see people that are good, that are honest, that are uh you know loving and caring, you want them to do well, right? And uh that's something that I've I've instantly recognized about you is that I can be proud of you and your success because you just you want it and you have a a support system that that loves you, supports you, and wants it for you. And I like I where where do you see this going? Like the next uh you know year, five years, ten years. Do you have any vision for the future where uh this changes or you have any uh goals for things that you want to achieve beyond just kind of riding this wave of uh you know, I don't know, uh support and and and uh and acknowledgement?

SPEAKER_01 42:37

So I used to have the misconception that I wanted to be I used to always say when I was younger, I used to say, I w I want to be the best knife maker in the world. That's the goal. But that's a very that's a very uh a very uh vague goal, I guess, because that's all subjective, you know. Nobody not everybody's gonna say so-and-so's the best knife maker in the world, or this guy's the best knife maker in the world. But um, you know, as far as business goals go, I really do want to over the years, I want to end up expanding the amount of designs, you know, because I only have one folder design. Um, so expanding that, um, being able to make more folders, uh, more styles, more design stuff. And eventually, you know, I wouldn't mind uh doing basically like the same concept that that Microtech has in a sense that um, well, a little different. So I would really like to have a production company, a full on production company, and then be able to make knives 100% by hand myself and do what I'm currently doing, you know? So actually start. Start up a production company, and then in the same sense, like Marfion Customs, you know, when it comes to them being customized, they have they have over 40 employees in the customs department, you know. So in my mind, I want to be a hundred percent by hand um with just me, and then at the same time end up um eventually starting a uh company that I could do um runs of production knives and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Yeah, that's pretty exciting. Um I want to talk a little bit about your grandfather um and I I guess what his knife making was like. Um did he mostly did he do it as a hobby or did he sell them? And uh what was I I guess what was your experience growing up with that? Um just in I guess what what he did for like our surrounding knives, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

So it was it was a hundred percent hobby. Um he had all the equipment and everything, but um he just did it as a hobby. You know, he's a World War II veteran and everything like that, and he would do it, do it for fun here and there. He made a couple knives, and I I actually have one of them. Um but he would always go, so this is funny. Their their main attraction in Murphy, North Carolina, the population where they live in North Carolina is 1,600 people. Extremely small town. And every time we would come up there, we'd go to the flea market, and I would go with with my great-grandfather, and we would uh and he would always collect case knobs. So that was one of my first like experiences of seeing uh seeing knobs too was was seeing my my great-grandfather go to go to the flea market and and wheel and deal, getting case knobs and everything like that. And um it was funny because a few years back, um we would, you know, we would take trips to North Carolina and everything, and we we will always make fun of when every time we'll come up to North Carolina, my great-grandparents know everybody in that town. Like people that my dad went to kindergarten with, they know them, and they'll say, you know, oh, so-and-so died, you know. My dad will be like, Oh my god, I can't believe they died, and I'll be like, Oh, that's so sad. And I'll whisper to my dad and be like, Who is that? You know, they it's such a small town, they knew everybody. So there's one time a few years ago when we came up, and uh and my papa was talking, and he said, Yeah, you know, old Kit Carson died. And I looked at my papa and I was like, You mean Kit Carson like the knife? And he's like, Yeah. And I was like, You knew Kit Carson. And and he said, Yeah, he went to the flea market every weekend. And I was like, How did I not know that you knew Kit Carson? He said, He lives two miles up the road.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

So uh yeah, my my great-grandfather knew Kit Carson, and he'd pass before I even I even got to meet him or even knew my great-grandfather knew him, but um, yeah, uh my my great-grandfather did that just for for the most part as a hobby. Um, but like I said, growing up in that environment was something that that I could say definitely um made me want to have a passion for knives and everything.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Yeah, yeah, I I don't know how many people in this world would like nonchalantly sort of mention that they knew or were friends with Kit Carson to just like go on their merry way. It's like, oh, you're a like a knife enthusiast, and he he knew about that, and it's like a pretty big relationship, and you're like nothing, like you're not gonna tell me until after he's gone.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

I know, I was like, I had no idea you knew Kit Carson. He's like, Yeah, he goes to the flea market every weekend. I guess he didn't know that I was in the industry enough to know who Kit Carson was. Well, he probably didn't even know Kit Carson was known, honestly, because my great-grandparents have no they have a landline phone and that's it. There was no connection at their house, nothing. So they have uh zero idea, probably that Kit Carson was even known in the in the knife world either. They just probably thought he made some some decent knobs.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Yeah. Well, you know, it's a a funny story. I um I was so I work in IT and I was uh working for this company up in uh St. or in uh Springfield, Missouri at the time, uh doing uh e-commerce stuff. And I went to this uh convention up in Chicago and I was talking to this guy that they were um massaging for a uh a sales deal to do the development on something or other, right? And uh we were talking about knives, and he he said that he uh used to he used to sell something, he was like a sales rep for uh for the something, and A. G Russell, uh uh AG Russell used it. And so he would go up and and go to his shop, and A. G Russell would show him like all the mammoth ivory, like the full tusks and all sorts of stuff like that. But he was like, he was nonchalant about it too. He's like, Oh yeah, I was just like, he'd show me all this cool stuff and everything, and it was just a very small facet of his life. But when I was talking to him, I was like, Well, you know, I'm I'm a custom knife maker and getting into all this stuff, and he just pulled out this story of A. G Russell, and I was like, um, that's pretty interesting. Uh that I I think it's just a generational difference where that the there's not as much connectivity between people, so they don't realize sometimes like um uh the reputation precedes uh people.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Um it's the knife industry that connects us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Yeah, and that's that's one thing that I I really I mean it's a it's a a large reason for me doing the podcast. You know, I invest my own money and my own time, and it really has just come from a desire to be able to uh document knife makers, uh, to be able to promote them how I can, and really just to dig into the behind the the curtains because you know you have this public persona, and sometimes people curtail that uh uh pretty strictly, and you see it on social media. But I want to be able to talk with people and get uh you know, I want to I want to make them like uh cry like Oprah does. You know, it's when it gets down to the raw real deal.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

And it's cool to see see people like you know do interviews with knife makers and stuff like that, because um when I was growing up, I I followed there's two people that I followed every single video they posted, it was Jim Skelton, and it was uh if you ever watched Wieners in Steel, where they would uh it was an entire it was an entire group of they're they're now my friends, but um there's an entire group of people that would go to to a uh a hot dog place every single weekend and and film uh YouTube videos and bring out knives and stuff like that. Um but yeah, it's it's it's great to be able because the the knife community is such a small community too, and it's so tight knit. And I think it's it's crazy that you know I've seen a lot of uh activity on Facebook where where you know people be talking about knives here and there and be like, oh, you know, this knife sucks or this maker sucks or something like that. And it's like, you know, this isn't like uh like an industry where people don't see that. Like there's probably there's knife makers that see stuff all the time, like because it's such a such a small, small industry, you know.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, that's uh so I was talking um recently with uh Lucas Cow. He uh operates uh Squid Industries out in California. Right. And uh and I I posted up on Reddit about the interview that I did with him, and somebody was talking about some drama uh related to a Reddit user who was uh uh bashing their their quality, uh quality assurance or whatever. And I was like kind of like researching through all this stuff, and I uh Lucas answered him and I think was thoughtful in the sense that um you know I I don't know if a lot of people realize just how close knife makers, even if it's your business, you know, if you're in production work, like how close you are to your per your product, right? Right. And and I I I often see that you know there'll be some disagreements, somebody will like disparage a brand or an individual knife or an experience they've had, but then uh you know, get to talk to a person and and be like, hmm, you know, maybe I misjudged that. Maybe I just misjudged the fact that the product, the thing that I was uh experiencing was maybe an isolated fault, and it wasn't the maker, and it wasn't their entire business, and it wasn't their entire multi-generational history that I should be hating, but maybe it's just like this experience was a bad one and I need to regroup.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Right. You see stuff like that here and there in the uh but for the most part, the knife community's uh the the greatest community there is, you know. There's I think the knife community is so good at filtering people out to like genuinely bad people, because I've been in this industry long enough to see like if people are doing something shady or or screwing people over anything like that, within within a few minutes, somebody will have their address posted on social media, you know. There's the knife community is crazy in that sense to where everybody is so tight-knit and so close that that you know it people that people that have genuinely malicious intentions and stuff like that don't don't last in the industry very long because um uh the knife community is very well filtered with uh with great people.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of loyalty. Um uh I I I mean I've seen it both ways. There's a lot of loyalty, and then there's people who sit on the fence and they just like to see people fail. Um, but I would say by and large, like if if people just recognize that in in knives, especially, uh, you're not really gonna find a lot of a lot of makers and a lot of business owners that are any closer to the to the pulse of their business, right? It's like so understand that you generally they want to make it right and make you happy, uh, but be kind and courteous and respectful and you know typically they'll be a like very willing to work with you. But it's like the really the really rude ones that are the hardest to uh deal with because you kind of just like uh I I will work with you and try to sort this out mostly just so you'll go away.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

And that's that's a tough situation to be in, especially when you're passionate about your work. But um I I wish you nothing but success, and hopefully, uh in in your endeavors, you don't run into that. But you know, you get into production work and you can't have your hands on every single thing. Uh you just have to figure out what your um what your policies are gonna be and how far you're going to take it on making people happy. But as long as you put the customer uh in an appropriately first position, I mean, so it's not you're not breaking the bank to try to make them happy or but breaking your own back, then I think it would be fine.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Right. Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Yeah, so um t my typical uh last question uh for everybody I have on the show is you know, you if you if you can give a few pieces of advice to up-and-coming knife makers or you know, business owners or people like that, uh, and I think especially in your experience, uh young younger kids who are interested in trying to pursue their passions and knives, like what would those things be? Like if you take if you take uh your experience uh and say uh you know you you know that there's there's kids out there or young, impressionable uh people in knives that need to hear something in order to spur them on. Well what would those things be?

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Um I would I would say the most helpful thing to me is, you know, I didn't I never expected to take the path I did as far as getting here over 10 years of of time. I never expected that that it would be going through every bit of the process I did to finally be able to make folders after 10 years, you know. When I was when I was 12 years old and wanted to be a knife maker, I saw I saw it as kind of a next day thing, like, oh, I'm gonna learn how to make folders, I'm gonna do this, and it's gonna be great. Um, you know, so don't so don't uh don't underestimate the process. Um if I didn't go through what I went through of learning how to um to pay attention to detail and and certain things like that and how to run you know how to run your own business, how to do all of that, you know, I I wouldn't be in the position that I'm in um because of that process that I've went through on on making knives and stuff like that. And then when it comes to when it comes to to learning how to make knives, especially as a young person, never be afraid to ask people questions because that's one thing that's so great about the knife community is you know, I don't think I don't really believe in trade secrets. I believe everything's kind of open knowledge for the most part. You know, people have certain certain ways they do things here and there that are that are uh not really known. But when it if if you ask one person and they don't want to answer, I'm sure the next person you ask will have the have the exact same answer. You know, it's a it's it's pretty open knowledge when it comes to knife making, and everybody, for the most part, is so welcoming to to help, um, especially up and coming makers, like, you know, I wish I wish every young person had the position that I was in to where I was so blessed to be in a position where I had a lot of mentors and was able to learn a whole lot, um, and was able to take kind of different styles from from everywhere that I'd worked or learned from and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, don't be afraid to ask questions, don't be afraid to learn. Um be afraid to fail, but don't put out a subpar product too, because that's also very important. Uh hold a still hold a very high standard for yourself um and know what that looks like because thankfully I was I would say it's really good that I was a collector first for a while too, because I had an idea of what quality looked like, you know. And then now being a maker, I have even more of an idea of what quality looks like because um because I know how things are done, I know processes and stuff like that. But even more so, I think it's important to to you know to know what that quality looks like and to be able to do it to the best of your abilities.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

Yeah, that's all really great advice. Um I hope everybody listening here takes that to heart because uh uh even as a knife maker myself, uh those are all things that I constantly have to remind myself of, right? It's like it's like nothing comes overnight, and anything worth uh doing is worth doing right, and uh everything that is uh everything that is right is not always easy. So I mean there's I I I talk about knives being very phil philosophical. Because if you think about it, life is like that too. Like you like a marriage, uh it takes a lot of work. Um it takes a lot of work to make things stable and to it's it's not always it's not always the most intuitive thing, it's chaotic. And uh, you know, relationships with other people, it's it's that same way. Your relationship with your kids, and and man, you'll find this out. But kids are hard to raise sometimes, and not not always when they're not always when they're super cute and they just look like I love you, daddy. Like uh, but when they get to a place where they start challenging you and you gotta like figure out how am I going to try to break their spirit or I'm gonna try to work with them and you know take a different path. So um, yeah, knives are the same way. I learned something new all the time, and I also it keeps me real honest and real uh thought thoughtful, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

Oh, 100%. And there's uh that that's one thing that I'd say was a benefit of learning from from so many people, too, is you can take you can take those methods of what you've learned and and you know apply it in the way that best suits you and then always keep learning, you know, because if you if you think you've made it in the knife industry too, it's not um there's always more work to do, you know. You can always do better, you can always improve no matter what. I still have a ton of room for improvement, you know. Like I said, after this blade show, I'll have I'll finish 11 folders, so I'd I know pretty much uh next to nothing when it comes to when it comes to knife making in comparison to some of these people that have been doing it for for years, you know. And uh and as as of right now, I'm sticking to everything that I've been taught and sticking to what I know, but you know, I'm always open to to opinions and and what's out there. And I think if if you are closed-minded to to there being a better way to do things or or anything like that, you know, you can't grow that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Yeah. Well, it's uh to your point when you said like your goal was to be like the best knife maker in the world, like you you can obtain that, right? You can be the best knife maker in the world of your knives. And as long as you always try to focus right as long as you always try to focus on improving yourself, you will become the greatest knife maker in the world of your knives. And it's you know, like regardless of what anybody else is doing, if you keep focusing on that singularly, uh you can make an incredible piece of work, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:18

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Yeah. Well, uh, Jake, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk with you. I uh, you know, have fun with the new baby uh and your wife and everything. And uh uh I I won't be at Blade Show at the end of this year, otherwise I would have come to see you and everything. But if you if you're at Texas next year, I'll I'll be sure to see you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

When when is Texas next year? Is it March?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

Yeah, I think they moved to uh they they moved it earlier in the year, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

I'll be there. I'll be so I'll be at Blade Show this year, and then um I'm either gonna do USN this year or um or Nashville, do the Nashville show. I'm I'm leaning more towards Nashville because that way Tagan and and Roman can both come with me um and everything like that, so I won't have to fly or anything, but um yeah, it's only driving distance. But yeah, I'll definitely be at Blade Show, Texas next year. I'll be at Texas, Blade Show, Atlanta, and then um Nashville as well next year.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Cool, cool. Well, I hope to see you soon in person and shake your hand and everything, uh look over your work, and uh, you know, again, I'll uh I'll just be a fly on the wall watching you uh your career progress and your family grow. And I really appreciate you investing your time and talking with uh my listeners, and hopefully they can uh they can follow you as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

Perfect. Thank you so much, Aaron. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:38

Absolutely thank you. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Good Old Blades Podcast. Remember that you are loved and God bless.