The Good Ol' Blades Podcast
Join me as I talk to other knifemakers, craftsmen and artisans in my journey to unpack the mysteries of knifemaking, and the culture by which it's built. This podcast features interviews with many of the men and women who have built, or are building the industry of knives and knife making as we know it today. Visit us at thegoodolbladespodcast.com!
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The Good Ol' Blades Podcast
Episode 1 - The Man, The Myth, The Legend - Chris Crawford
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Take some time to get to know the man, the myth, the legend, Chris Crawford! We get to sit down and talk to Chris about his life, knives, and random other topics in the inaugural 1st episode of the podcast!
- We get to hear a little of who Chris is outside of knives
- Chris talks his fishing obsession and making his skiff and fly rods
- We learn a little of Chris' philosophy on making things, including knives
- We talk about Chris' origins of his EDC pattern
- We also find out about Chris' longtime friend with Derek Melton, Chad Nichols, John Cohea, and much more!
Welcome to the Good Old Blades Podcast. I am your host, Aaron LeVere, and I'm joined with my co-host Chris Crawford.
SPEAKER_04Alright, this is the inaugural episode of the Good Old Blades Podcast. I am your co-host, Aaron LeVere, and I'm joined by my co-host Chris Crawford. We wanted to do this podcast to answer some of the questions and bring on guests to answer questions that we see uh actively in knife making. And I would say that I mirror a lot of uh the same kind of analytical attributes of of Chris and and that we both think of things in a very uh you know linear, progressive type of manner. So uh we thought that we would first eat our own dog food and interview each other so that we could get an idea of who we are and then we can start on other guests and talking about other topics and see how things progress.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sounds good.
SPEAKER_04All right. So Chris, tell me a little bit about yourself. I mean, I obviously I know what I see online and everything, but if you uh could synopsize yourself uh as a knife maker, uh your your career in IT and everything like that, what would you what would you say?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I um do knives as a hobby. Um I I guess I've kind of turned some of the stuff into a a little bit of a business, I I would say maybe more than a hobby with the DVDs and the templates and that kind of stuff. But when it comes to actually making knives, that that is still a hobby. Um I kind of get in and out of it, you know. Like I'll go through periods where I want to make some knives, and then I'll go through periods where I want to do other things. But but I got into knife making probably, I golly, I guess it was in 2001. Uh Derek Melton, buddy of mine in high school and college, and after college, um, we just we kind of he got interested in it, and maybe I'll talk more about that later. But then uh we got interested in it kind of about the same time. And so, but uh prior to that, I was uh well not prior to that, I guess still. I work in as you mentioned, I work in IT. I work for a bank right now. I've worked for hospital, worked for a school district, worked for a different hospital before that. Um kind of ran a gambit of responsibilities from doing just hardware tech support to doing uh development and uh now work with our uh call center phone system, that type of stuff. But all right, yeah, so I'm I'm um I'm 52 years old, about to be 52 years old, I'll be 52. Probably by the time this airs, I'll be 52 already. But uh been in knife making since about 2001, is I think when I got started. Uh I have uh I live in Sautilla, Mississippi. I almost said Tupelo, I say Tupelo a lot just because not many people know where Sautilla is, and a lot of people know where Tupelo is because it's the birthplace of Elvis, and uh we have a Buffalo Park. That's uh that's one of our other claims to fame, Elvis Presley in the Buffalo Park. But I have a wife and three kids. I have a son who's a he's a sophomore in college, and then I have a son who's a senior in high school, and a daughter who's in the eighth grade. And um we've lived here for I don't know, I don't know, we've been here a long time. I lose track of time, but I work for uh I work for Cadence Bank, um, previously known as Bank Course South. So we're kind of a southern regional bank, uh, but continuing to grow. Been working for them in IT for a while, doing various different things.
SPEAKER_04Um we know you're a knife maker, but how do you feel from a cross-discipline perspective working in IT and working in your day job affects or affects, inhibits, and enhances what you do in knives?
SPEAKER_02Uh that's a good question. I've never really thought of it that way. Um, I guess I guess if anything, I would say because you know, one of my responsibilities is is development, um, code development or script development, that kind of stuff, application support, that kind of stuff. So it forces me to be analytical. And that if I were to say that probably I guess my you know, that being part of my nature, I think, I think probably is what drove me to work with knives, m mechanical knives, you know, slip joints, automatics, you know, things you had to think through and figure out, you know, how am I going to get this piece to work with this piece? And, you know, are there are there are there things that I can do to make this more efficient? So yeah, I I guess maybe I don't know if it's so much my job, but maybe it's just the maybe it's just my nature lends itself to do the kind of work that I do as a career and also to build the kind of knives that I build. That's a that's a good question, and one I not really had thought of. But I I guess there's a a uh correlation between them.
SPEAKER_04But there is this mix that you have of allowing a uh a peek behind the curtain for uh the general public on on how you think about things and how you progress through things. So I I it to me it's I I recognize it. Um but I think it's uh maybe observationally more of a that's who you are as a person, and that's the reason why you work in the field that you do, and the cross-discipline is taking that same uh that same level of uh analysis and and uh thought processing uh processing and applying that to other things. Because I mean, let's talk about this uh uh the boat and fishing rods and things like that, right? I mean, if uh you apply that same kind of uh rigor to just about everything you touch.
SPEAKER_02Well, I just I don't know, man. I I enjoy making things. And so and I kind of enjoy a project, you know, and uh and I love fishing, right? So if I can't be out fishing, sometimes I think, well, what can I do to make it better for when I can go fishing? I know, I'll build me a little boat. Now, talking about that boat, you know, some people may have seen it on Instagram and stuff. Um that thing is uh you don't want to get me too much talking about fishing, but but uh but I had there was a there was a man in Batesville, so there's little boats like that. It's called a one-man boat. Some people call them a one-sheet skiff, it's made out of one sheet of plywood. And uh they were pretty popular in Panola County, Mississippi, and I'm sure they are other places too, but but you see them a lot around there, and a lot of people made them. And some people call them crappie boats and and this kind of stuff, but they were they're small little boats, little one-person boats. And uh, and I had this Sunday school teacher. He was a uh when I was in middle school, I believe it was, and uh he taught high school um biology. He retired before I got there. His name was D.R. Roberts. And so Mr. DR, he he made these boats and he let me come by and help, you know, quote unquote help. So I so he he charged me a few bucks left less because I helped. Um but man, I don't know how many fish I caught out of that thing, and I I fished that thing until it just you know is water's leaking up through it and everything. So anyway, so last year I decided uh I would I would like to have me another one of those. And I had so much fun in it, and so I decided that found me some plans on the internet and made one, and man, I have really enjoyed that thing. Um I guess uh one of the things my my my boys they're they're older, one of them's in college, one of them's real involved in school, so I'm I'm fishing by myself more. And I know this that's not what this podcast is about, but but anyway, so um when I go by myself, it's been nice to have that little boat uh to take, and I've enjoyed that. But but along those same lines, you know, I I grew up loving to fly fish and never trout fishing or anything like that, but fly fishing for bluegill and that kind of stuff. And so um I've had um Brian Burbank. He's a guy that lives over around Birmingham that I met him at a knife show. Well, it was at Batson's Blazemith and Symposium. Bats' Blazemith and Symposium is held over near Birmingham every year, and it's a big knife get together, and they have demonstrators that come in and everything. And then on Saturday they have a knife show that's open to the public. And so um Brian and his wife Angie, they'd come over there and I'd met them and uh talked to him and just got to know him and built a friendship that has lasted many years, and I've made a few knives for him, and he made me a uh custom fly ride, and um actually just made me two, at least two, maybe maybe three. I know I broke one. I think I've got two now, two more now that he's that he's made. But that kind of got me interested in making a fly ride, and then but I always wanted a bamboo fly ride, and so uh that's something I'd I'd bought some books and and you know did a lot of reading on. But you talk about getting back to to tooling and stuff. One of the things that when I made my bamboo ride, I've made three of them now. I'm not great at it. Like there's nothing I'll ever sell because I'm not proficient enough to to sell one for the cost that it would that I would need to acquire for the time put into it. But I've I've made myself two and made my father-in-law one, but uh, but anyway, I had to make a lot of the the heat treat of and and the jigs and all that stuff for that. Well, I enjoy that kind of stuff. I mean, I enjoyed I enjoyed making the stuff to make the rod, probably as much as I did making the rod. But uh, but I but getting back, circling back to your question, I I just I enjoy making stuff and and I enjoy the satisfaction of looking at something completed and and being like, well done, you know, and and I'll I'll I'll tell you this. So I'm a Christian, and you know the Lord and and and the Bible and and and all that's important to me. And one time I was thinking about I was thinking about creating and thinking about making knives particularly, and thinking about knives step by step. I was thinking about what is it that makes knife making enjoyable, and what is it that makes knife making not enjoyable? And uh, and I offer this to anybody who may be struggling with that. And so I got thinking about, you know, Genesis talks about how we as man are made in the image of God. And so that raises the question, well, how are we made in the image of God? Like, what does that mean? And and there are ways in which we are made in the image of God, and there's ways that they're not. There are attributes of God which we share, and then there's attributes of God which we don't, like we're not omniscient, you know, we're not omnipresent, we can't be everywhere at once, we're not all-knowing. But one of the things that that we share with God is the ability to create. Now, he created out of nothing. We can't create out of nothing. We have to create out of something. But he is a creator, and he made us a creator. And and and if you think about the Genesis account, if you think about the creation of the world, after each step, you know, God looked back and he said, This is good. This is good. And then when it then at the final creation, the creation of man, he says, This is very good. And so when I how I apply that to knife making, I know I'm giving you a very long answer to a short question, but I realized that when when I take knife making slow step by step, and I look at each, I do each step to the best of my ability, I can look at that step and go, this is good. Even if it's not good, you know what I mean? You know, things always, you know, kind of mess up. But but if if I'm making a knife just to get that knife done and sold, I don't enjoy it. But if I'm taking my time and each step along the way, and and and and this applies to building that fly rod, this applies to building that boat or whatever, whatever I create, you know, like I'm gonna mill the liners and they come out nice. I say, this is good. I have satisfaction in that. And then I'm gonna glue the handle on there, and then I'm gonna profile the handle. I say, this is good. You know, I'm I have I have I have joy in that. And then when the whole thing comes together, just like just like the the final creation of the world, I think, you know, when God says this is very good, you know, you look at that knife, and and to me there's there's satisfaction, there's joy in it. And I think that I think even to someone who is not a believer, even somebody who may be an atheist, you know, we're all still, I believe, made in the image of God, and and we have the ability to create and we find joy in our creation. And and you think about cooks. Like, like uh uh, you know, a cook, uh I was gonna say, you know, a woman. I was thinking about my wife, you know, not saying only women cook. I know men cook to their chefs and everything, but I think I just think about her, you know, she has a a new dish that she wants to create, and it comes out very good, and it tastes good, you know, and there's joy and there's there's satisfaction in that. And so um so why do I create why don't you know, why do I make a boat? Why do I make a fly rod? Why, you know, why do I have these other projects? I just I think there's I think there's joy and there's satisfaction in looking back at at your creation and uh and enjoying it and appreciating it. So anyway, I apologize for that long answer.
SPEAKER_04No, it's okay. I mean, I I think it's very similar for those who do not have children, it would seem like they're uh they're boat anchors to life, right? I have some cynical single friends who are like, why would you have children? Uh but uh when I think about the effort that you put into children, it's something that I don't I don't question. Uh there's not really a time in in my life where I've looked back and said, uh, I really shouldn't have done that. Right. And I uh I think that when you dig your heels in, when you set roots, and when you uh when you really work towards something, there is an immense satisfaction in helping to nurture uh things to fruition. Right. And uh, you know, I'm I'm reminded in in my knife making uh there's a certain uh fidelity and integrity that I try to keep. And it's a lesson that goes back to how I raise my kids. It's like anything that is worth doing is worth doing right, that you might not always do things perfectly, but it's uh it's always good to try to do it and then to do it right, right? And so when I'm making knives, I'll actually oftentimes bring them in the house from the shop and uh have them take a look at them. And you know, my my seven-year-old will sit there and like look at it and tilt it around on the light and everything because she sees that emulated by us and uh my wife and I, and and knife shows that she's had people look at them, and she kind of does that thing. She's like, hmm, it's pretty good. And I'll usually I'll usually take that as a pat on the back. She's like, Dad, this is a really nice knife. And uh our our 17-year-old uh Alindria, she's uh uh she's gotten into it more uh because she's been at a few shows and traveled with us some and she's the same way. She's like, this looks really good. But there are times, there are times when they'll look at something and they'll zero in on it and say, uh, were you planning on fixing this? And and I appreciate that because it it shows that I've emulated enough, uh I've emulated enough on how to detect certain flaws uh and and analyze the way that things that that they should be, and they can look at that in my knives and kind of tell me uh whether I've missed something or not. So uh it's you know, I the idea of creation, I think, uh is one of the reasons why I do it too. Because I I I uh you know came off of a jewelry apprenticeship uh and it was like super expensive and during the recession and everything, I was like, I really want to still do metal working, but I don't really know how to do that without spending you know tens of thousands of dollars on precious metals and everything. So uh knives was it, and uh I have I've enjoyed it thoroughly, just the process of creating.
SPEAKER_02I got a funny story to tell you, real quick, about you're talking about showing knives to family. When I first started making knives, I show one of my sister and she goes, That looks like a real knife.
SPEAKER_01I was like, it is a real knife.
SPEAKER_02And you, you know, of course, when before you know, when you're first getting started, and I don't think it's so much your work, I think it's before people really know what knife custom knife making is. And they're like, and they're trying to compliment you, right? And they'd say stuff something like, Man, that that's good. That that looks like something you get at Walmart.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that. You know, and that actually brings up a good point, is um my my wife would call me a uh contrarian in some ways. Um, I definitely play devil's advocate on a lot of ideas and things like that, and kind of uh it's actually one of the reasons uh for me wanting to participate in the podcast is to say, you know, there's things that we don't talk about or things that are um maybe taboo in knives a little bit. Uh and yeah, I just don't hear uh makers talk about those things, like the fighter points of certain things uh that I'm sure we'll get into as our episodes uh uh accumulate. But um the reality is that knives have not always looked the same through history. And we we are at a uh uh uh mature point in cutlery where I I think the the critics are very critical because there are so many examples and references available to hold our work against. Um but if you can imagine uh like the the history or the the concepts of the buoy knife, right? Like what did what did Jim Bowie actually use? And uh I know I'm going to start some chair flipping and uh riots around here if people if I go if I go too much further into the explanation of the buoy knife and where and its histories and everything, because there are a lot of camps. But the knife that Jim Bowie wielded and what we look at now as the as the uh image of of a buoy knife are not the same thing, right? And so I've I found that challenging. Even with the public, sometimes you have to educate them on what it is they're looking for in order to be able to uh understand and appreciate your own knife making uh styles and concepts and things. Do you uh do you ever feel like uh especially with your your EDC patterns or your uh or your uh uh your auto knives or things like that, that you have to explain why they why they should buy them or um I mean like it because your your your patterns are definitely unique to you in a lot of ways. Uh do you ever find difficulty with that?
SPEAKER_02Um I don't find difficulty with it because this is gonna sound terrible. I don't find difficulty with it because I don't really care. And I don't I don't mean that in a in any kind of cynical way. I'm just you know, it's it's the knife I make, you know, and so if somebody likes it, they like it. And if they don't like it, you know, that's fine. I've had people um that I've worked with in the past who found out that I made knives and were kind of interested in a knife, and but they were interested in some of the more traditional patterns. And I've made, you know, I've made two blade trapper before, and I've made a three blade stockman. Uh, but I just really maybe I'll get maybe I'll get back to doing that one day or whatever, but And this is going to sound lazy, but that EDC pattern is just, I can almost make it in my sleep, right? And and I like it. It's a and everybody that I sell one to likes it. I mean, they like it because it's a it is a good carry knife. It's small, it's it's not heavy, you know, it doesn't have bolsters. I do have I do have a bolster version of it. It's a little bit nicer, but but it's, you know, it's very it's a very good pocket knife for just and I don't mean that in any conceited way, but it's just well, you know, you and I talked about um not on the podcast here, but you and I have talked about the pattern that it was built off of as an old um a smaller lockback, like a stainless steel lockback. What what'd you say it was like it was it wasn't the it wasn't the buck. Was it buck? Like a 515 or something.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's a 515 or 525. There's a there's some five 500 series small lockbacks. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So that was it was definitely influenced by that. I mean, it wasn't that particular knife, it was one that my dad had that um that I think was probably a probably a knockoff of that knife. And I used it for one of my original slip joint patterns, and then it's it's grown and my and you know, kind of morphed over time to what it is today. But um, but I just I just like making that knife. So to answer your question, in fact, I don't even remember exactly what your question was, but um you know uh what what was your question?
SPEAKER_04Sorry. Well, no, that's fine. Um what I what I was interested in though is that you uh if you have problems introducing uh knife designs uh or work that you do uh to people like educating the public on them.
SPEAKER_02So not really, also for all the stuff our reasons already said, but also because I don't really have a lot of public interaction. Like I I've never done a show. Um at Batson's Blazemith Symposium, they have like a Saturday afternoon, basically they set up tables and you can set your knives and stuff out, and the and the the public comes in. It's it's not it's not a big show, it's just kind of like an afternoon for like two hours, you know, Saturday afternoon. So I've never done a show. Um all of my all of the interest in my knives is pretty much come about from my website, and then once I got on social media, you know, on Instagram and Facebook and stuff, so what people see, I don't think they really expect more than what they see. So I I've not find that I've had to justify. Now, I've I've had I have had people to say when I posted that little knife, you know, they ask for what the price is, and I and I tell them, and and you know, one guy's like, Are you out of your mind, you know, for that knife or whatever? And then I I never get into you know into tit for tat type stuff with anybody online. It's it's unproductive, and I feel like it would hurt my brand. Okay, so one thing I've tried to do is build a brand where I offer a good product at a fair price, you know, whatever that be, whether it's my slip joint, whether it's a video, and I try to stay out of controversy. But anyway, fortunately, some of the people who had bought my knife previously stepped in and defended me, so that was that was really nice of them. Um, but I think I was trying to answer this earlier that there were some people at work who who were interested in me making them something more in the traditional pattern, which I have no problem with, but you know, like a like a stockman or you know, just something more traditional. And um I I just really didn't have any interest in building it just because I don't know. I mean, maybe maybe I should be expanding a little bit more. I I tell you, if if there is a traditional pattern that I want to build, if I if I do build one, I've always been wanting to build like a sunfish, and um I'll get around to building one of those one day, but but other than that, you know, other than people asking for certain types, and I just say, well, I'm I'm I'm just not making that particular knife, you know, or the or these this is the ones I'm focusing on right now, and um and just kind of let it go from there. So does that answer your question?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think so, in in a roundabout way. But I think I it in in a in a way, I feel like uh the conversations I have with you are kind of dictated by rabbit holes and a little bit of ADD. Um sorry. No, no, no, no. I mean, I'm I'm the same way. Uh so you know, we'll ask questions and we'll get around two things. I don't, it's not the Joe Rogan experience. We're not gonna be like really super great interviewers that stay on topic and try to lead people down a certain path. Uh uh, but um I personally in fixed blades, especially, because that's how I got started. I've noticed that there are a lot of people that want custom work, uh, but they always want they always want what they want. Um not oftentimes uh not oftentimes popular patterns, but they want things like uh hey, I have this drawing and I wanted to see if you could do it. And then I'm like, you know, there's a portion of me that's a people pleaser, like a small portion, but there's still one. Uh and you know, customer service and everything. And I'm like, I really hate to say no, but the really the the money is the driver for me in that case, uh, it in the sense that you know somebody wants Damascus and they want maybe stag handles and they want the the overall blade to be something ridiculously large. You know, it has its own challenges to heat treat, you know, maybe not a sword or things like that, but a fairly large knife. And I have to tell them, you know, it's not it's not that I won't do it, it's just this is probably what it's going to take me uh from a time and energy perspective and materials, and this is what it's gonna cost. And I will say that the the the time and effort for a truly custom knife is usually the limiting factor on whether I do it or not. And I've done I've done some uh either to buy some type of tooling or something that I've wanted in the shop or just because I was being nice, but I've severely limited that as time's time has gone on. But you know, I come from a uh a hunting background, hunting and fishing, but a lot of hunting. And so a lot of my my earlier fixed blades were hunting themed knives. And it is very difficult uh to take a knife that you say is like a skinner and then uh sell that in a market where they actually it it cross-pollinates with like EDC knives, right? And then uh somebody's like, What's this for? It's like, well, I mean, you could you could break down an elk with it, or you could open up a bunch of Amazon boxes. And it's like use your imagination. I don't know what to tell you, but I'm just making the thing. If you like it, that's fine. If uh you don't like it, then uh you know, there's lots of other knife options out there, but I kind of I kind of fall into the same uh mentality where it's like I'm going to make what I want to make, and if you like it, then we can talk, and if not, I'm still willing to talk, but uh I'm I'm not gonna make a bunch of really crazy patterns or things like that just to uh satisfy a person's imagination. There are a lot of knife makers out there who will do it. I'm just not one of them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, one thing that helped me um I would say get back to the point. Well, I'll back up a little bit. I had gotten back in oh, this is a long time ago, 2006, I think it was, um, Blade magazine. It's the only time I've been in any magazine. Kim Bree did a review on my slip joint and gave it a good review. And so, man, I had like a lot of orders come in. And I just got over, I got overwhelmed, and it took the joy out of it. And so then I went years that I might only make one or two knives all year. And um, I guess, I guess it was probably, I don't know, five or six years ago where I kind of got back into doing knives more regularly. Um but one of the things that just that helped me was to not take custom orders. Now, when I say I don't take orders, like a lot of times, a lot of times, like right now, I don't have well, I've got actually got one on the bench I've got to get finished. But other than that, I don't have any. I don't have anything backed up. So somebody may call me up or or send me a message and say, hey, you know, I'd like to be on your list. If you so I have a notification list when I have something available. And I will uh I'll say, well, hey, uh, you know, I don't have anything going on right now. If you want me to make you one of my EDC patterns, I'll be glad to. You can pick out the handle material on the inlay. And uh then if they do, then I'll I'll usually make two. You know, I'll make one for them and then I'll make one to have available uh if somebody else comes along and wants one. But just doing that has really taken the pressure off and made it where I didn't feel like that I had to do custom orders. I mean, to the point where I don't know, I just I kind of work on the ones I want to work with. And and to be honest with you, the reason I feel like that I can do that is because the template business has been so successful. Because knives funded my kind of hobby and our extra money. And um, but with the template business going really well, I don't feel I don't feel the need to be in there making knives as much. Because it's a whole lot easier to make templates than knives, I'll put it that way.
SPEAKER_04Well, I mean that that's actually an interesting point. Uh, that I you do such a good job uh in the market of of your template design and everything, and at such a fair price that I really don't know that I see a lot of other people trying to push into that market too much, right? But you know, one it's difficult because, you know, I mean I'm a consumer of your of your templates, right? So and for the edification of our listeners, that's actually probably how Chris and I got acquainted with each other mostly. Uh back in 2019, I asked him some knife making questions about slip joints. I think it was like I'm getting into slip joints, uh, you know, wanted to talk a little bit about it, and you gave me some advice. And I don't think that we talked for almost a year, and then I was looking for a panagraph, and I uh had this little Hermes one that was local on I think Facebook Marketplace that I was looking at, and you gave me some pointers on that, pointed me to uh Tim Robertson, who was doing a lot more panograph stuff at the time, and I ended up buying uh Gordon P1-2 from him. And so then after that, after you fed fed my uh addiction for a panograph, you started you know feeding me templates, right? And um, but I I I there are lots of people in business that are fair weather. And uh, you know, maybe if you're not if you're only creating so many knives a year, you're still present. But in in templates, you've always been there, right? As long as you've been uh uh making the templates, I've always been able to ping you on something. And whether it's a custom uh custom template or getting orders in for your your pre-made templates, um, I've never not gotten a response and never not had speedy uh uh production and delivery on those things. And I personally, as a consumer, appreciate that because I can trust that you are the source that uh uh I'm want to go to.
SPEAKER_00I appreciate that. Yep. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Um also like uh you're willing to entertain uh uh template designs that are uh outside of the the norm for traditional slip joints too, right? So we're not just talking about uh bombs or shield uh you know uh like badges or ovals or things like that. You know, you have a Sasquatch up on your up on your page, you know. Like so, I mean those things are interesting to me because there's the the options are endless, and I don't really want to get stuck into the uh trying to cad uh anything out or have a 3D printer and worry about uh any of that stuff. It just it's just another point of frustration for me. So I do appreciate the template business.
SPEAKER_02It means a lot.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So you have videos that you do uh from time to time. What is it's an interesting point. What does 2023 look like so far without actually sharing too much about what your um your plans are? Do you do you have uh candidates for interviews and things like that lined up for 2023, or what does this look like?
SPEAKER_02I don't have anything official. So we had some stuff in the works last year, and um uh our our bank converged um merged with another bank, and so we had conversion going on for like the last quarter of the year. Basically, well getting ready, I think it happened in October, but we were man, it was just it was a lot of work uh leading up to that. So I I wasn't able to take off and do those things. So we so I've got to get with the guys um and try to get try to get some schedules laid out. But yeah, so I hadn't released a video since I guess it's been a couple of years when I went out to Texas and we did, I think we did five. We did the Bill Rupel video, we did two with Craig Brewer, we did um one with Alex Ruse, one with Tobin Nieto, and we did actually we did two with Alex Ruse. That may have been it, that may have been my stops. I I can't remember. But I stay out there for about a week. And I I I have a regular full-time job, so that's that's the problem too, is you know, we take a family vacation every year, and this year my son's a senior, and we're gonna take him out west also. And so it's finding time to do the videos. I would love to be able to do more of these things, but it's just finding, you know, taking off from work, finding time. So I got a couple of guys that I've been talking to, and hopefully we'll be able to get something worked out. Um I would like to release new videos every year, or at least every other year. I think it's been maybe three years since since we've put anything new out. This will be the third year, so hopefully we'll be able to get something going.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so just quit your job and do videos full time so everybody can be at a flip.
SPEAKER_02Videos don't pay you insurance.
SPEAKER_04I know how that is. Yeah, I mean, I I get it totally. Uh I I cannot see myself and for any uh prospective investors in my work uh or collectors, I don't see myself going full-time at all. Um but uh there's definitely just that I get a hanker in some time to just be able to not work uh full-time and to be able to invest uh really and just like throw myself into knives. Uh but then you know there was a was it 2020, like right before the pandemic, I was laid off from work. Um and it was it was a long time coming because this company was just uh kind of a train wreck financially, and they were uh uh they were the process of letting me go and I just kind of stuck in like a tick and was you know proved value. Uh and then but then eventually it happened. Uh I guess they couldn't get rid of anybody else. Uh but for probably about three or four months while I was looking for another job, I did knives full-time. And I was incredibly blessed by being able to sell knives and have uh friends, family in the in the knife community buy knives from me. But it also made me hate is a wrong word, but I I definitely got um I I definitely expose the fact that I do not really like taking a lot of custom orders um and doing work uh that's that regimented. I I really like coming out here thinking about things and uh and and doing doing knives when the muse hits me uh versus trying to do like force it. So um I totally get that. But you know, for the sake of uh again, me as a consumer, I mean I have quite a few of your videos. I was introduced into those fairly early on in my knife making journey, and I've always appreciated the consistency in providing content over production. You know, we were talking about uh that a little bit before we started this thing. But um I I definitely learned something with every every video you do, um, with with uh the way that you produce it and ask questions and your uh uh the makers that you have that you're interviewing. I always learned something, and I've always felt like the money that was spent on those videos was well worth worth it in the knowledge that I got. And I think a lot of people in the industry would agree.
SPEAKER_02I appreciate that. Yeah, there's a there's a little bit of a selfish motive to making these videos, is especially when it came to you know, some of these uh I what what I would call high-end makers, you know, like uh like I'll tell you this, uh I'll tell you a story about Luke Swenson. So anyway, I I I I would consider him a high-end maker, but I just kind of messaged him online, didn't really know him, but uh I guess if we'd been on Facebook, on the I don't know, the slip joints and lockback maker group or something. But I was like, hey, you know, I was I was looking to um I was wanting to make to talk to you know, do a video with you know a high-end slip joint maker. And he's like, okay, so do you want me to put you in touch with somebody? I was like, no, I was talking about you. But anyway, this, you know, like I said, it's a bit of a selfish motive in that you know, some of these, like him and Craig and Bill, uh, you know, it's such a blessing just to get to go spend several days with these guys and and and be in their shops and and watch how they do what they do, you know, and and then to be able to turn around and produce uh an instructional video that that you know I can sell and and make you know make money. And and and just so everybody knows, I do pay the demonstrators, they don't, you know, they they make money from this as well. But um, but but can also help others, then that's that that's you know, that's that's really good. I'm glad I'm glad that it works that way. But but yeah, I mean that I learned something. You talk about learning from all that, I learned something every time I go. Even even like when I went up to I've been to Pennsylvania twice to Jay Nelson shop, we've done, I think, five videos together. And I don't make fixed blades and you know, I don't forge and all that stuff, but I always learn something. I mean there's there's always something that I mean there may be just a little tool. I mean, one of the things, um he had a hacksaw blade screwed to his table that he would use to cut uh sandpaper sheets. I thought that's it, that's genius. You know, I'm always cutting these sandpaper sheets into quarters and having to get the scissors and do all that, and like you you'd have to see it um to know what I'm talking about. But it's just little little tips like that. Um I pick up every one of these things I go to, I pick something. Even when I was doing Paul Long with those sheaths, and I don't make sheaves. I hadn't made a sheath, I made one sheath for the first knife that I made, but um, and I'm not planning on making sheaves, but even even in that shop, there's always something, there's always something to learn from somebody, you know, if you watch them and listen to them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's actually a good point on cutting on cutting abrasive paper, um, regardless of what it is. I I've seen it done a lot of different ways. I've seen some people use straight edges. Um my preferred method actually is I uh I have a paper cutter, one of those uh it's not an industrial paper cutter, um, but it's just a little shear uh on the table uh that you know the arm comes down and cuts it out. And so I can take an eight what an eight by eleven sheet of uh sandpaper or whatever it would be and cut those into strips and whatnot. And uh that it's pretty quick. I think I might have found it on Facebook or like Facebook Marketplace or something like that. I think it's like 30 bucks. So I'm I'm a I'm big on trying to look for aftermarket solutions versus just buying uh buying a thing outright. But I have also wasted some money try trying to buy aftermarket things to solve those problems that there is an actual tool out there for it. So but you live and you learn. So kind of with that in mind, um I wanted to get into how you got into knives and a little bit of a a history exercise from your perspective. So you know you are a slip joint maker, you make videos uh that demonstrate other makers' uh processes and techniques. You also have uh you know panagraph templates that you make. But um when it comes to your experience in knives, you've been in it quite a while. And I want you to oh, I wanted to ask uh you to tell me and the audience a little bit more about how you got started um and where you know as a as another thought, like where do you think that's going for you personally as a knife maker?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man. So I got started, like I said, I think I said earlier, back around 2001. Maybe even 2000, but it was I think it was 2001. So I was working, uh I was working down in Jackson, Mississippi at St. Dominic Hospital, and my buddy Derek Melton. So I've mentioned his name a couple times, but um some of you may know him of Melton Forge Works. Uh he was a Fortune Fire champion. He made the short sword, it was just a really awesome sword. Um he's primarily doing blacksmith type work now. He's an awesome blacksmith. And actually, one of the guests that I want to have on here um pretty early. But so Derek and I became friends in high school, and uh I was friends with his wife. We marched beside each other, played French horn in a high school band, and I got to know Derek, I think, because he was dating Cindy, which is his wife. And uh so we got to be friends in high school, went to Mississippi College, he came to Mississippi College, got to be better friends during those years. We got out of college, uh, we worked, golly, we worked at one job together, then we ended up working at another job together, and then I got married and moved to Tupelo, but I was still doing some custom work for the hospital down in Jackson. So anyway, I'd go down there, and so you know, Derek was Derek has always been my hobby buddy. And by that, like when we were in high school, we were rollerblading all the time. When we uh a little bit later, we got into remote control airplanes, we were building and flying remote controlled airplanes together. Uh at one point we both had motorcycles, you know, we both had Yamaha Viragos and we were riding together. And uh I joked that the best thing that happened to me financially was to move away from Derek. But uh, but so um so anyway, so anyway, we Derek was um so Derek was friends with this guy named Ramsey Green. His dad, Ramsey's dad, was a professor at Mississippi College, which is where Derek and I both went. Uh, this was after we got out of college, but uh but Ramsey was friends with a guy named Terry Vandevender. And so a lot of y'all may know Terry Vandevender, who was a mastersmith. And Terry Vandevender, and so Ramsey, if I remember right, Ramsey would go out snake hunting with Terry Vandevender. So very Terry Vandevender not only is a knife maker, but also a herpetologist. And so I was real into snakes too. Like we would go out and catch snakes, you know, and stuff just for fun, did that a good bit. But anyway, so Derek got to talking to Ramsey. If I and and Derek, if you're listening to this and I got the story right, I apologize. But anyway, so somehow Derek got interested, or Ramsey got interested in knives from Terry, and Derek got interested in knives from Ramsay. So Derek finds this, and this is the you know, the internet's just starting to really become popular at the time. Derek finds this tutorial, and you can still find it out there. I think it's in PDF form, PDF uh in a PDF now, called Jonesy's Cheapskate Guide to Knife Making. And so Derek finds this website. Have you have you seen that? You're laughing. Have you seen that? Okay. No, no, but yeah, you gotta look it up. Jonesy's Cheapskate Guide to Knife Making. And so it was it was literally like dig a hole in the ground and put your coal in there for heat treating and you know, drill your, you know, take you a piece of steel and and drill your holes in your profile and cut it out with a hacksaw and file it and all this stuff. So anyway, so Derek gets to talking about that. And I'm I'm down there in Jackson, you know, like at the hospital, meeting with uh, you know, who the lady who's still my boss, I guess, that I'm doing the contract work for. And so I'm hanging out in Derek's office and he's talking about knife making. He's like all pumped about it. So anyway, so I go home and I look up that tutorial, and I think, okay, I'm gonna make me one of these knives, and I'm not gonna tell Derek about it. This still cracks me up. So anyway, so I made I made this knife, and this, you know, it's just like your first knife, right? It wasn't even heat treated. It was it was made out of Home Depot or Lowe's steel, like low carbon steel, not heat-treated, oak handles, you know, that I got from the wood department and all that, brass rod, you know, to hold handles on. So I go back down there to Jackson uh for another, you know, check-in and sitting there in Derek's office, and he's talking about knife making again. And he's like, I'm gonna do this, this. I was like, I pulled out of my bag, I was like, you mean like this? Pull that knife out. But that's where it got started. So uh Derek knew some somebody that was a welder, and he he built us both a couple little torch uh forges, and there is on the internet, and you can still find it, Ron Rills E-Z, EZ Burner. I think it's called E Z burner. And it's a it's a burner, and I still use this today in my forge. I I actually had to remake one because I burned mine out over the years. But um but yeah, it's a it's a it's a burner that you can make out of just like you know, pieces of steel, pipe, couplets, nipple, you know, pipe nipples and stuff that you know that you can get from Home Depot. Use it like a turkey regulator, you hook it up to a gas grill tank. And dude, that thing puts out the fire. And so, so anyway, so we we got those made. And so we started uh started you know with uh railroad spike knives, that kind of stuff. And then I was up here in Tupelo and I was in a I was somewhere getting me some gas hose, and the guy was asking what I was using it for, and I told him, and he's like, Well, do you know told me about this guy named Bruce Evans who lived up in Booneville? And uh and I didn't know him, but I I contacted him, and this was back when the knife forms, and you're younger than me, so I don't I don't know if you remember like well, they're still out there blade forms and knife forms and all that stuff, but before social media, I mean this was the place, if you wanted knife information, this is where you went, right? And so um, so anyway, I found Bruce on there and and uh went up to to visit with him, and he told me about a guy named Ted McMinn, older gentleman who lived not too far from me here. And so I started going out and visiting Ted McMinn. And so when I went out to see Mr. Ted, I asked him, I called him up, I said, Hey, you know, I heard you make knives. I'm kind of interested. Would you mind if I come out there and and uh and talk to you? And so I so he said that was fine. And and and one thing I noticed about him is he was kind of standoffish in that you know he just really wasn't opening up. I mean, he was a nice, he was nice to me and everything. But um I found out later that he's had a lot of people to come in his shop that wanted to, quote, learn to make knives, and really what that meant was they wanted him to make them a knife. He's passed away now, but anyway, but so he saw that I was serious because I brought some work that I'd done, and and and so we would talk knives, and I would go home and I would do stuff, and then I would come back and show it to him and everything. But but one thing about Mr. Ted was that he made pocket knives. And I remember one of the things I remember saying and him responding is I was like, oh, that's that's really neat. I said, I guess you buy the spring. He said, No, I'll make the spring. I had no idea you could make a spring. You know, I you know that I knew nothing about metallurgy or anything. And and I mean I knew you could heat treat a blade, but I had no idea you can make a spring. And so I I I gravitated almost instantly to pocket knives. And the reason goes back to my father. My father and I always carry pocket knives, and there were Christmases where I'd give him, and they're not expensive, like old timers, right? Like charades. There would be Christmas, I'd give him a knife, and he'd give me a knife, you know, and they might even be the same knife, you know. We go to Walmart, we buy a cheap knife, we give it to each other, but that's but we always carried a knife. My dad told me never trust somebody don't carry a knife, you know. He also said the same thing about vegetarians, but but you know, that's that's neither here nor there.
SPEAKER_03Sorry to sorry to the vegetarians listening.
SPEAKER_02But uh but anyway, so I I like pocket knives. You know, I was never one to really carry like a fixed blade. I wanted something that I could carry because we carried knives, and that's why I gravitated towards small knives. It's funny. The first knife that I first folding knife I made brought it, showed Mr. McMahon, and his response was that's cute, because it was so small. So that's cute because he would make these big hunting type almost hunting folder, you know, bigger bigger knives. But that's where I got my start. Um, so I would meet with him uh almost every Tuesday. I was working from home at the time and uh working for the hospital, just doing contract work, actually just doing contract work for a couple people. But I would go meet with him and we would go to lunch and we'd talk knives and he would give me advice and and uh I would I would come back and I would work on it and and then go back. And so uh that's how I got started from there. It just it just kind of grew a little over time. Um I one of my I had a couple of goals. Let me tell you one more thing about Mr. McMinn. Uh this is advice I tell people often, and this is what he told me, and I'll never forget this. He says, there is no knife worth losing an eye for. And his point is always wear your safety glasses. You know, and that's so true. You know, it's it's so easy to get out, you know, to not have them on or whatever. But anybody that comes in my shop, I tell them, you know, I tell them that quote, I said, you know, my teacher told me there is no eye worth losing a knife. I mean, no no knife worth losing an eye over. Um, but anyway, so I had a couple goals that I wanted to achieve in knife making. And uh when I was making folders, one of the goals was to make a two-blade knife. And so I made a couple two-blade knives, and then one goal was to make a three-blade knife, and I think I attempted like maybe three times before I got one successful. And it's it's not even that great of a knife. I mean, it's it's decent. I actually used cable damascus, and if it if I'd known it was going to come out as well as it did, I would have probably not used cable damascus because the cable I welded up myself and it has some you know some flaws in it and stuff. But but then I then I had another goal of making an automatic, and and uh so somehow I heard about David Winston down in Starkville, Mississippi, or over in Starkville, Mississippi, who was making scale release automatics, and I went and talked to him. He showed me actually he didn't have one, but I think he laid out the you know, showed me on paper how to do it, and I came back and played around with it and made one. And then and then my goal was to make a lever automatic, and so you know, it took me several tries, and I made this. And this was over years. This is not you know real soon. And then my goal after that was to make a deal action automatic. And so I worked on that, and I've made I've made two prototypes on that, and I've tried since then and I can't make another one. I keep running into problems, but uh, but that's kind of where I am, you know. Like I've I just it's kind of like I achieved that goal, and then you know, yeah, I'll make a few other automatics or or whatever, but um, but that's that's kind of how I got into it, and that's that's where I am now. And now I'm just making my EDC pattern just because I I still enjoy making knives, but I don't want to make knives that are gonna stress me out. And so I just make my EDC pattern and I'm happy with it, and people like it, I guess. And if anybody wants one, I'll sell them one.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, shameless plug. But it it chris, it it it it is your podcast too. So I mean, I guess plug away, right? One thing I've always appreciated is the is the adherence to certain safety protocols. Uh like the the uh how to make folders that has uh Wayne Clay and Ron Lake and uh uh Is it Shade?
SPEAKER_00Or that's the multi-blade book.
SPEAKER_04But uh Yeah, no, it's uh Sefuente or I I forget how to say his last name. Uh some people probably get mad at me for that. Uh but it's uh it's a fairly popular folder uh book. And uh something that Wayne Clay was talking about is using a respirator for buffing compound. And I uh I I grew up in the Appalachian Mountains and coal, coal mining country, and I knew uh quite a few people uh whose grandfathers or fathers died from black lung. And uh, you know, the the consequence of working in limestone or metals uh metal uh grinding and whatnot is silicosis, so white lung. And uh that's a very common uh common problem is because you know you're you breathe in metal shavings and compounds and things and your lungs cannot process them. So if you want to be an old knife maker, then you need to protect your lungs and your eyes because you'll either end up blind or you'll end up with emphysema or something like that later on, and uh that'll cut your life short by quite a bit. Uh not to mention if you're a fool on a buffer and uh throw some throw something back at yourself. But I mean it it it seems almost unconscionable uh when you think about all the dangers uh of of knife making to actually get into it, especially if you're a risk-averse. Uh but there are there are a lot of hazards that you don't actively think about uh and a lot of uh a lot of missing knuckles uh in order to find some of those things out. But so um you mentioned one time I was talking to you, you mentioned about um Chad Nichols, right? Um and Damascus and uh kind of this earlier iteration of you and blacksmithing. Uh can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I was I was interested in the relationship that you guys had uh earlier on in your knife making journey, uh especially as it was uh related with uh um blacksmithing and and then also uh it's a follow-up question uh mm related to what made you decide to forego that in favor of doing more stock removal.
SPEAKER_02So when you say blacksmithing, are you talking about just uh well I don't think I have really any history in blacksmithing? Are you talking about like forging railroad spike knives?
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, you have forging. Uh I I guess bladesmithing would probably be the more uh appropriate. But I mean, yeah, for you have forging in your in your background, right? And you said you made uh cable Damascus for for I mean, you know, th those things uh I I I got into knives and I I can't really say that I was a heat and beat type of guy. Um I mostly did stock removal, but I had a fairly uh simplistic forge that I was doing uh heat treating and some manipulation with, but I found that I was that was not for me uh pretty early on. Um it wasn't like a lazy thing, but it was like it was a lot of work and not as precise as I wanted to be with the I I felt that I could get it on a grinder a lot quicker. Um but it's it interests me at least, you know, you have this experience with uh forging and uh you know dabbling in in that side of the house and then you know go into uh making pocket knives, which is requires a little bit more uh precision at times. So can you talk a little bit more about that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so my for like if you go to my website and you look at my knives, I've got every knife I've ever made out there in my gallery, and they're dated. Yeah, look at the ones I forged. They're all gonna be within like the first year. I mean, and they're all gonna be railroad spikes, right? So I never really got into forging knives. Now, the the cable Damascus, um I, you know, I think I just I was playing around. I was trying to see if I could forge some Damascus. I never had anything like a power hammer. Well, actually, I did have a power hammer for a while. I can get into that in a minute, but I'll I'll get into the the relationship between me and John Kohey and Chad Nichols uh in just a minute since you ask about that. But um, yeah, so I I don't really, you know, I think I think I was forging railroad spikes because that's what I have. You know, I picked up railroad spikes, they're novelties, people like them. That's just where I got started. I mean, you know, that and some stuff and just some basic stock removal. But as soon as I started making pocket knives, I abandoned that stuff pretty quick. Um mainly because I liked the mechanical nature of pocket knives. But also, I just and this may be lazy, I just didn't like grinding big blades. And I I didn't like I didn't like swinging the hammer, you know. I got I got respect for those guys that do, because they get those guys got guns, you know, and and uh it is really neat, you know, and and going and watching people that that have that is it's a real talent, you know. It's uh some people might create a dichotomy, um if I'm using that word right, between people who forge versus people who make not I'm not talking about stock removal, but people who do stuff like folders, you know, forge hunters, buoys as opposed to people who make folders. But man, I don't think that you could say either one of those disciplines requires more talent than the other. I mean, to to to forge and to move the metal the way that people do, and you know, it's it it is a true art. And um, but it would it just it wasn't for me just because I just I just didn't enjoy it. And that's why I don't make big knives. I don't like grinding, I don't like grinding big blades, and so and and I like the mechanical nature of pocket knives, I like something that I can carry. Um and so that's why I moved really quickly from you know fixed blades and that kind of stuff into folders.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I mean to be clear, I have a lot of respect for uh bladesmiths and blacksmiths. Uh I I think that especially when you get into the world of running your own crucible and and smelting your own steels and everything, like bringing bringing all of those materials together to make the end result, which is a a knife, uh that gets really complex and and complicated, right? I I don't know how some people figure out all that stuff out. Um but a lot of probably a lot of trial and error, mostly error. But um, you know, some something that I think is um maybe a misnomer uh nowadays is that uh a lot of the old, I mean, all the old blades, uh, you know, Sheffield style uh pocket knives and everything were uh bladesmiths to some extent, right? They're all you know ground on big wheels and things like that. And and so there's there's not one side of pocket knives uh you know traditionally that did not come from the same ilk of processing people that bladesmithing today comes from. Um but you know if we think about like Like modern modern slip joints and everything, uh, the tolerances are a lot tighter now, and the other the expectations around that are tighter. Uh so you have to add a lot more steps if you want to you know make your own Damascus or uh modify modify billets in order to turn those into slip joints. So there's a lot more process, uh I I feel at least. Uh versus like for me, I just you know I want a Damascus billet, I buy one that's approximately what I need it to be, surface grind it to the parameters I need it, cut it all out like I would any other piece of steel, and I'm good to go. Like I do not have to worry about the headache of how am I going to get this feather pattern uh to work correctly and how am I gonna you know botch it. Uh yeah, if if I get everything, if I get the blade out tiered and everything situated correctly on a on a pocket knife and uh and put some liners on it and everything, I'm usually pretty happy. It's like okay, if I don't mess anything else up and I get and I nail the grinds and everything, we're good. But uh you know, to go to have this idea in your mind about uh the kind of like maybe like a mosaic patterned Damascus or something, and then get it all the way to uh complete to me, that seems like an awful lot more stress than I'd be uh willing to put myself through.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, fortunately, there's there's guys who are really good at it, and uh, you know, Chad's one of them. Uh I'll get back to your question about that. And so uh did you know John Kohey? Did you know him personally?
SPEAKER_04No, I did not know him personally.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so John Kohey. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, he's uh he was a Frontier style sheath and knife maker and really, really good at what he did. But um John and Chad and I all kind of got started about the same time, again, early, you know, early 2000s, and we met each other all around the same time. Actually, Mr. McMinn, uh we would we would meet together for lunch um like once a week. Well, I always talk about Mr. McMinn, but this was like later when I was working, and we met a few other knife makers in the area, and we would get together at a restaurant and you know talk about knives and shore work and that kind of just kind of a little, wasn't it really anything official, anybody could come to it, but just an opportunity for us knife makers to get together. Um But John had just moved uh to our area, and uh I'd kind of I guess had some conversations with him online, but he just moved to the area and he was making, you know, he was just getting started in knife making at the time, and and then uh Chad, I think was he was he was making knives at the time and starting to dabble in Damascus a little bit, but there was a man back home in Batesville, uh Buzz Warlaw, who had a pig farm, and I was talking to him, he was friends with my dad, and talking to him or one time or my telling him about I was getting into knife making, he goes, Well, do you have a hammer? And I said, Yeah, I got a hammer. And he's like, No, I mean like a power hammer. And I said, I didn't. And um, so anyway, he said he had a power hammer just leaning up against the back of his shop, and he gave to me, and it was a little giant 25, and uh like the Babbitt, the bearings, you know, and had to re pour the the bearings and stuff, and it needed a motor and all that stuff, but dude just had like a 25-pound little giant leaned up again. You said he traded three pigs for it to somebody.
SPEAKER_03So that's crazy.
SPEAKER_02So I had that little giant, and I I brought it home and cleaned it up, had it had it in my garage, had actually had to drill some anchor holes in the garage and bolt that thing down because it would walk across, you know, if you ran that thing, it'd try to walk off from you. But anyway, so uh so so I had that. Well, John had started, he got started getting into forging, and I wasn't forging. I didn't really need that power hammer that much, but John had a surface grinder. And because I was starting to move into folders, I was kind of like, I kind of need that surface grinder. And so me and John did an unofficial trade, and I got his surface. Well, look, hang on, let me back up. He had a surface grinder, this may have been before I got the power hammer. He had a surface grinder that I borrowed for a while, but ended up giving back to him. And then, but then I had the power hammer. John had a heat treat oven, that's what it was, and I was wanting to get into stainless a little bit. So we did a kind of a swap where um I gave John the he put the power hammer in his shop and I got the heat treat oven. So so Chad, he started, you know, he was getting into Damascus and and really getting good at it and doing different patterns. And I believe I'm remembering this right, but he was wanting to get into um maybe stainless Damascus or something where he had to, what is it, where they pump argon into the oven or something. But anyway, he needed an oven. And so I wasn't using the oven because I wasn't, I I thought it was going to do stainless, but I wouldn't. I was still doing 01. So he got that oven, but then as he as his shop got bigger, he had a surface grinder that um that he that he he gave to me to use. And so anyway, that's the surface grinder I have now. I have the one that came out of Chad's shop. Uh John, when he passed away, still had that power hammer in his shop, and I'm sure that oven was probably burned out and long gone by now. But so that's kind of that's kind of how me and John and Chad all kind of I don't know, you know, kind of helped each other out, I guess, uh with our with our start. But having for for making folders, I'll just say this and not to not to get into this whole subject, but for making folders, uh surface grinder is not necessary, but it's very beneficial. And so that is one of the things that's helped me move on to the next level and you know, and fit and finish, and and that type of stuff was and and and that was because uh Chad, you know, let me put that surface grinder in my shop.
SPEAKER_04Um maybe it would be a good idea to iterate on what your goals are for the podcasts going forward and um you know what things that we're we're looking for as you know from from your own impression.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I would say that um like you mentioned talking to people, interviewing people, uh there are a lot of people doing things that are may not be necessarily just knife making, but are somehow related to it, maybe on the fringes, you know, like blacksmithing or like you said, scrimshaw and or sheath making or um or anything like that. I mean, it's like I said, there's there's always something to learn from somebody and hearing people's stories, hearing how they got to where they are, um, you know, who were some of the influencers that you know for them, or you know, what what was the turning point in their process, you know, all these things can be beneficial and can help others who listen. And so, you know, my goal is really to offer a it was kind of like with the videos, you know, I want to offer uh I was gonna say a good product at a fair price, and seeing that these are free. The price is already fair. I don't know, I mean time's not free, right? So so I well really, you know, actually time's not free. So I want I hope that we can offer a product that people feel like it's worth their time to listen to, you know, that it's informative, uh, that it's that it's entertaining, and uh, and and that it's beneficial. And so I think that'll come as come along as we do get to talk to other people and learn about what they do and uh learn about them and and some of these may be people that are well known. And and also, you know, you and I've talked about we want to we want to find people that we don't know. And you know, maybe it's somebody, maybe we've come across somebody on Instagram that we like their work, and just talk to them and say, hey, tell us about you, you know, and and let other people get to know them as well. And so that's that's kind of what my thoughts are uh on the podcast and and what my goals are.
SPEAKER_04Good deal. Well, Chris, thank you for sharing yourself with us and talking through some things. I I'm encouraged by both of our ability to look at the world in an analytical and inquisitive uh type of manner, and I really look forward to what we turn this into. So uh for all our listeners out there, uh just know that you are loved and God bless you, and we'll see you next time. Thanks.
