SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to the Good Old Blades Podcast. I am your host, Darren Luther. And join me as we talk to other nightmare and craft about art and everything. Stephen King once said, life isn't a support system for art. It's the other way around. And for Alicia Newton, coordinator and director of Blade Show for the past 15 years, supporting artists, is her life. When it comes to the largest knife show on Earth, Alicia has managed to somehow wrangle thousands of exhibitors, table contracts, special events at each show, venues, hotels, and a vast marketing effort, and done so with grace that seems perfectly natural. Alicia, along with a tight-knit group of supporters of her vision, spends countless hours orchestrating what many consider to be the Super Bowl of knife shows. She's given me the chance to talk to her about her passion, educate us on knife shows, and represent an organization that brings so much to the knife community. Alicia, it's an extreme pleasure to have you on the Good Old Blades podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Thank you so much. I'm super excited. I always, you know, enjoy talking to people, and especially the Blades show.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah. Well, I on the on the show, I I think I talk a lot to makers uh about their perspective on things. And that's not always the most helpful to makers. You know, like the the perspective, the perspective from maker to maker is like sometimes like the blind leading the blind. And um as we talk about like the dynamics of of you know online selling or going to shows or how how a maker navigates through the the industry of knives, I thought it would be um the the greatest uh benefit to my listeners to talk to somebody who um who runs the largest knife show on earth, right? And to talk through some of the um you know the caveats and how to how to navigate that space. So it's a it's a it's a pleasure to be able to talk to a subject matter expert on shows um because I think we could all learn a lot from you.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Well, I hope I can give some pearls of wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

So um firstly, I would love to uh kind of get an idea of what got you from where you were at to uh to running uh or being the the director of of Blade Show and events there. Um if you can give me a little bit of a backstory of like where where you came from and what got you to the Blade Show um position that you're in, I would love it.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, it was all somewhat um random, if you will. I came from a background and working in another event arena, actually in the ski and snowboard industry, which is also very community driven and a job that um also kind of just really allowed me to to be around like-minded people, outdoors, all those types of things. And I always wondered, you know, if I ever had to leave that job, would I be able to find that? So skip forward um several years. I left where I was living in Washington, DC. I moved uh back closer to my family, uh, ended up in Cincinnati, Ohio, and ended up at a company originally hired to do marketing. So my my background for about 20 plus years was PR in marketing. And the day, I'm sorry, let's say about two weeks before I was supposed to start my job, they called me and said, Hey, actually, our VIP person just left. Would you be willing to take that job? That's an immediate need we had. And at the time I had not actually run events, I had worked on, ironically, the largest ski and snowboard show, but I was not in the operations. And so I talked to a couple people and I was like, yeah, sure, I'll I'll do it. Why not? Um, so I started out in the company as an event manager, working more on our conference side of the businesses, and then we had um some new leadership come in, and they decided that we would divide the events business up to conferences, which are usually like where you go into the hotels and there's all kinds of um education sessions and things like that. And most importantly, you have to dress up in really nice clothes, and I hated that. So um I immediately said, I want the trade shows. I will take the trade shows, that's where I have um experience. And they handed me some of our trade shows, and then eventually in 2009, they handed me the Blade Show. It was being run by a team out of our Wisconsin office at the time. And um, so 2009 was kind of my first co-leading show, if you will, um, with the team that was running it, and then 2010 it transitioned to me fully operational, and I have been running um the Blade Show, and at the time when we were still at the other company before we got purchased at my heyday, we are running 22 events for that company, and I had a massive team. So um, and then as most people know, we were purchased in 2018 and uh Blade magazine and Blade Show, and then um we've grown obviously the Blade Show itself to now three shows, and so those three shows pretty much keep me busy year-round.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, that's exciting. I mean, so so serendipitous to be uh running like kind of what what you've done for a long time to do in this really crazy kind of like off-the-wall um like event planning, like for the largest sh thing in the world, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

I mean Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Um what is what is the the size of your team uh for organizing look like today?

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Well, if I tell you that I'm gonna have to give away one of my biggest secrets. So that having been said, I actually don't have a team. Um so I do work for um our parent company, Caribou, and there are a lot of people within my organization that I rely on that I work in collaboration with, in terms of obviously Steve Shackelford with Blade magazine, um, a team, people in our e-commerce business people that help with kind of the website um for Blade Show, etc. Um, but in terms of like coordinators, you know, other people that would I used to have my old company, um we don't I don't have those people. So it is me. And I'd like to try to keep that as a little known secret, but it is it is me. Um, but again, I don't want to take away from any other people in my company that work on our other brands or you know, do have other, you know, we do have um a web developer and we do have graphic artists and we do have advertising people, and I do work hand in hand with all those people. So I don't want to say it's just me literally dotting all the I's and crossing out the T's, and I have zero help. That is not the case, but in terms of the day-to-day operations, it is just me.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Yeah, well, and it's a it's it's kind of a leading question to a certain extent because um I I know that when most people that because I I talk to a a large breadth of people inside of the knife industry, they always mention your name, right? And and uh so I'm thinking, well, if I'm always talking to Alicia, then Alicia is probably the one that most people are gonna be talking to. And um I I I've heard from several knife makers, it's like be be kind to Alicia because she's like running a lot of like a lot of the stuff. Like I don't think it's like be kind because otherwise you'll pick up, it's be kind because you have you have a lot on your shoulders. Um and I I think it's an important point though, because as as people are interacting with uh with the organization, they have to understand that behind that organization there is a person that's doing all the work to try to get everybody happy, and that person is you. And and uh it's like it is be kind to you, right? It is be kind and be understanding because you are juggling so many people and so many different facets of how the show gets performed that if we don't work as uh partners, uh like we're knifemakers, but if we don't work as partners with with the show, um then we're not helping you out. And I think that almost without uh without reservation, everybody loves you. I mean, everybody I've ever talked to always talks about how great of a job you do and how caring you are and how uh supportive you are. So um I I I think that that's important for everybody to know, especially as they start introducing themselves to uh knife shows, uh, that they realize that you are the are the person behind the scenes, try to make everything work.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

No, and I you know, and I really appreciate that. And I think you're right. I mean, my thinking is be kind to people always, no matter what. But um, but I think you're right. I don't think it's people saying to you, be kind, because she can control what your fate at the show or anything like that. It's just um, hey, be a little empathetic because you know, she it you are not her only exhibitor, you know. There are thousands of exhibitors, and but I can honestly say, and and I mean this with zero um blowing smoke up anyone. This community by and far is is amazing. They I feel incredibly blessed beyond words to have the job that I do. I mean, I think I told you I'm I just I've got 22 shows under my belt. I can assure you, I would not stick around because it is a lot. And you do, you do get beat up a lot of times, very much not by the exhibitors, believe it or not, but more from the attendees that don't associate there being a personal um face behind all this and don't necessarily kind of understand the work to them. They're just going to an event and they're thinking there's probably, you know, 25 people in customer service and they're having a bad day and they can't find their ticket or whatever, and they just want to beat up on somebody. And so those people, you know, that that kind of comes with the territory, territory, and I can brush that off. But for the most part, the exhibitors, I can really honestly truly say that all of you guys are kind, you're appreciative. Um, I'm always blown away with the amount of people that take the time to just come up at the end of the show and say thanks. And just that simple word, you know, that's that's a lot. You know, so um, and I think it's twofold. They recognize everything that I'm doing, but I recognize everything that you guys are doing to be there. You guys, you know, you're you're producing, you're you're creating products that you love, you're pouring your heart and soul and passion to something that you love, and you're, you know, doing just as much to get ready to come to the show, but just in a different capacity than what I'm doing to get it ready for you guys.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah, well, I mean, I I I speak personally that I appreciate it because um my introduction to uh to Blade Show was through the the context of how I understood that the knife makers guild ran shows back in the day, right? And as that as that transitions over to uh Blade Show running running the show, um I I was really not prepared at all. I had done one local show in Texas to prepare myself for running a table and uh what I needed to prepare and everything, but um I I had zero context. So I I basically have to jump into how to how to exhibit at the largest show. I mean I it wasn't it wasn't Blade Show, Texas, it was Atlanta, it was like the the the real deal show. The Super Bowl show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I I went from like one one small at the time not not it was not really the the best show because they were switching venues and whatnot. And so I you know I didn't sell any knives, I you know, there wasn't a lot of foot traffic and whatnot to going to Atlanta and just like drinking from a fire hose trying to figure out how to do everything. And um I like so yes, the from a contract perspective and getting all those things around, um, between communicating with you on the contract and getting everything paid paid up and uh going and getting in badges and everything, like the the the staff that you have to facilitate all that, it was uh really easy in comparison to trying to navigate how to set up a table and to uh deal with the foot traffic, like what is that all gonna look like? And um I I don't know if you remember this, but so the the show that I I had first attended was in Atlanta and it was right after um uh COVID, right? We were kind of like what I think it was 2021, right? It was like a what right um who all's going to be there, and so the the uh rest of the world was largely locked down. I don't think uh there was any uh European knife makers there, or at least very few.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

So there was hardly any international.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, there was no no none no one from Australia. Uh I don't think that opened up till 2022, right? And uh so I was placed temporarily in a uh in another uh designated or or uh reserved table that was right behind Steve Johnson or right right forward of him. Yeah. And um so that experience to me was a lot different than what I had heard because you know, um a lot of knife makers said, you know, the first the first time that you join a show, you're likely not going to get a good table because I I say I say not good table. I mean it's not preferred table because you don't have the opportunity to just um uh pick kind of where you want to sit. And uh because of that, they were like, you know, you will have first availability, and that's not uh uh that's not really a thing. Like everybody wants to be there, and if they have the ability to um upgrade or move tables um as they are there for many years, uh they try to navigate that system. And so I kind of got uh like I struck the lottery because it just so happens that in this like post-pandemic show circle, um, I was you know placed in a table that was, you know, prime, uh really. I mean, by one of the greatest living knife makers, uh, according to Steve Shackelford, right? I mean, Steve Johnson, we were back to back, I got to meet his family and everything, and I was in a really great area. But I kind of to the point is that the traffic alone from where I was sitting in proximity to the front doors and I was in the big room and everything, uh, to me was very overwhelming. There was just a lot, and I don't think that I could have prepared for it. So, like you guys made that simple because you took uh a lot of the guesswork and a lot of the um navigating how to sign up for the show uh off the table. Like I didn't have to worry about it. I really only had to focus on like what what is it that I have to do as a knife maker exhibiting to try to capitalize on this thing that I've I've invested in. And uh to me that shows a lot of initiative on y'all's side to uh figure out and orchestrate how to make it the easiest for the knife maker.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Well, and I think there's so there was kind of so many things that you were saying there, and so many things that I was thinking in my head about commenting, and you know, one thing that you kind of mentioned that you know is a as a statement like you're not gonna get a good table your first year, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and that's not always necessarily the case, and you're right, you did 2021, even though the show happened, I feel like that's still a year with an asterisk because we weren't even close to our normal capacity. To your point, we were missing over 125 international exhibitors easily. Um but I've found over the years that, you know, usually how I do my process, because then if I'm ever challenged on anything, my process is very simple and it's very fair in terms of new exhibitors. You know, new exhibitors are placed in the tables that have been left available by guys that didn't renew their space and or have moved. Then we take all the open inventory and I just kind of go down through the list based on when did you turn your contract in? And you know, so Aaron turned his contract in on June 12th, Joe turned his contract in on July 5th. Aaron will get the first table that's available, and then I go through there. Um and then to that avail kind of the move list, too. I think people sometimes question that. And the move list is basically to your point, it's kind of done on years attending. Again, it's you got to pay your dues a little bit. You don't get to walk in and be on the front row when you know somebody else who's been coming to the Blade Show for 15 years. Um so those to me have just been fair policies and and easy to um kind of justify when a decision is made. But further to your point about shows, you're exactly right. And I think that there's an education here, and I've actually thought about um creating some pieces for new exhibitors because it is very overwhelming to come to a Blade show. But people have to understand that you can either look at shows from a standpoint of it's only a successful show if I sold my knives, and and that's your only metric for a successful knife show, then you probably on your first year are not gonna have a successful show. However, if you can look at the knife show and your metrics are, yes, I sold, maybe I still sold two knives. Okay, great. I networked and and I met other new makers, I met new materials suppliers, I talked with you know 150 people. A lot of people that come to a Blade Show, they already have in their mind who they want to buy from. They're either buying factory, they're buying custom, but they for the most part already know I'm gonna buy from this maker, this maker, and this maker. So they're in their mind, their money's been spent. However, they stop by Aaron's table, Aaron engages them, he's like, man, I really like your stuff. Three months down the line, when he's ready to purchase again, he remembers meeting Aaron and he reaches out and he buys a knife from him or he commissions a custom build, whatever the case may be. So if we can educate people to think about shows as more than just your only metric being I sold knives or I didn't sell knives, but using it more for becoming a part of the community, building your community, networking, exposing yourself to new customers because not everybody's on social media. I hate to share that with everybody. You know, that that is how you have to look at shows and then be consistent with coming to shows so that more and more people become um aware of who you are, what you're about, your product, etc. And that's probably the biggest thing I try to educate people on.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah. Um, no, I I I I totally agree with that because that that's that that's like similar to um my experience. So I I come from a a long history in in technology. So I IT and cybersecurity, and I've done some web development and worked with some you know very large companies in uh e commerce and things like that, right? And uh one of the things that I've noticed is that uh as much as knives are like a standard business, they're also just as equally not like standard businesses. And the reason kind of is, is because every every custom knife maker and and every well ever every company kind of operates on their own island. And um they have their own customers, they have their own appeal, they you know, they they're not just custom knife makers, they're semi-production, they're production, they're um suppliers of things, they're leather uh leather workers, right? And so as you talk about the show, it's like I could I could be sitting next to a knife maker that is a custom knife maker or a legend like Steve Johnson, but then I could also be sitting next to somebody who is um you know a um a mid-tech um you know production knife manufacturer. Although I I would say that some of those uh some of those uh companies and some of those people all uh navigate more towards booths and things. Um there is there is the opportunity, at least in um in uh the show circuit to be around other other uh companies that sit in another portion of the industry that's still within knives. So we're always like a niche within a niche, it seems. But um, kind of kind of to your point, a lot of the feedback that I've gotten on shows has been from other knife makers. And and the rumor mill or gossip circle or whatever it is in in knife making is kind of like um the same kind as being in a nursing home. It's a very like it's very uh faction-based, it is very opinion, like heavily opinion-based, and you can never you can never really tell uh talking with another knife maker whether it's perceived reality or reality. So it's it's good to talk through things like again, like with you, because um your job obviously is to try to prop us up because if we're successful and we find value in the show, then we invest in the show that you're putting on, right? Um, but kind of to that point, um with with new knife makers, um I I it's new knife makers and uh existing knife makers uh that I think if more of that was more of like the guidance on how to maximize the experience of a show was dictated by the venue, um, or uh at least you know if there was like helpful articles or tips or these are these are the ways that you should do things to get the most out of it, I think that that would be far more helpful than than people trying to get anecdotal evidence from other knife makers. Because for me, like uh there was there were a lot of things that I was uh not prepared for uh for my first blade show, but there were other things that I felt like I was over prepared for and um it wasn't a thing within the show that I had to worry about at all. And to me, that gets really confusing. Um, especially I think within within your first five years of doing shows, it's probably some of the the most complex because you were really trying to figure out how your business uh functions in the context of a show where you're competing against uh a lot of people and that is super focused in a venue with like you know a thousand plus of you, like in in some way, shape, or form. And it's like how how do you how do you figure that out and navigate that?

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Well, I mean, um do you mean as how do you as an exhibitor navigate basically being in a room full of your competition? Or is I just want to make sure I answer you kind of correctly.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Sure. Yeah, I mean, um well I'll I'll contextualize this. I fully believe that in the market of knives, the the maker or manufacturer, whoever it is, um does not really have competition. Um that your competition is you because you as a as a maker are bringing uh like yourself to the table, right? So like the there could be two knife makers that make uh let's just say a loveless drop point hunter and they sit next to each other, and one being Steve Johnson will get um a lot of people coming to him, and then the person that sits right behind them, all of me, would sell maybe no to some knives or get some foot traffic. And like that is a that is a concept of uh one knife maker um being a legendary knife maker and building up his business, and me being a you know an upstart business and a maker. So I'm not gonna compete with Steve Johnson. I'm not gonna really gonna compete with the person that's right next to me. Um I um but what I'm what I'm talking about is how to how to be successful in a sea of other people that all uh um compete for the dollar that sits in a customer's pocket, right? How how yeah, how how to navigate through that because you know it is some about um you know what do you put on your table? How do how so how does your display work? Um how do you um communicate with customers, like what what are some of those etiquette components, uh setup components, things like that. So um I I'm not really interested in as much as a as a knife maker personally in trying to compete with the table next to me, uh, except as it relates to the um customer coming up and um uh looking at my work and uh validating that it's uh you know maybe a good um investment or purchase or something like that for them. So, like how how do I do that in the context of a show where there's just like you know a thousand people that do like think the same way?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Sure. No, okay, that makes sense. And you know, there's that's a multifaceted answer to me. First of all, believe it or not, uh let's start very simple. And I see it time and time and time again at a Blade show. A person that is choosing to just sit down at their table and be on their phone, just talking with the person whoever came with them, not engaging, um, just smiling at the people as they walk by. That is like basic 101, don't do if you want to fail at the Blade Show. Because to your point, you are in a room with a sea of people, and you are all competing for dollars, like you said, customer dollars, because you're right, every knife is different. Um, so you if you really want to make an impact, stand up, say hello, talk to people. Whether, you know, it's like the annoying salesperson, you know, in the small boutique that you go to shop, and yes, most times you're like, I don't need you to help me find a shirt, I just want to, you know, walk around. To some degree, you're gonna get that a little bit, but you never know when you have a chance to engage a customer. And I go back to you may not have made the sale right then, but they will remember you, they'll remember that you took the time, etc. etc. Um, and then you know, there's some other principles too that we encourage people to follow. Some of it again are just mind tricks. You know, if you if you brought 20 knives, you don't necessarily want to put all 20 up on the table at one time because again, these are mind tricks. To somebody, that might be like, oh wow, he doesn't actually, he's sold like 20, no, he's not selling any knives. He may not be a good knife maker. And that that's probably gonna be a more standard response from somebody that's what we would call a looker that's coming in on a Saturday and is like, hey, there's a knife show in town, let's go check it out, and is not enthusiast. Um, you know, so you you have to be you have to look at shows as as being strategic as well, putting your best foot forward. Um, but then the third thing that I think really genuinely helps is you have to do a lot of work beforehand. And whether that be you are building up customers through your um websites, through your social media, through your Patreon, through YouTube, any of that stuff. Kind of like we are talking about me. For a lot of people, I'm a name that is synonymous with Blade Show, but they don't necessarily know the face behind the name. You, as Nike Makers, you may have a lot of customers that you engage with on social media or through your email distribution list. And the show is that opportunity that presents itself now for you to be face to face with that customer and really brings that personal touch now. So it's not just show up, throw your knives down on the table and hope they sell. Besides just making the knives, you have to you have to do a little advanced work, just like I have to do, all this advanced work to make sure that I create the best show experience, not only for you as exhibitors, making it seamless, you know, making sure the venue's ready, making sure you guys have everything you have to succeed, but also for all the customers coming in the door. We want that to be an awesome experience, but then once they're in the door, it's up to the exhibitors to, you know, kind of polish that experience for them. And it requires a little bit more than just making your knives and showing up and putting them down on the table.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Yeah, I totally agree. Um, do you um do you have any particular advice on uh like displays or things? Because I I really see the gambit, um, you know, anything from a very vanilla uh table setup to um you know large displays and things like that. Do you see any anything that you think is like the sweet spot for it? Like is is it um is it more beneficial to have like a table uh 10 or like flag or something on your on your table display for branding or or are are there things like that that you see that um consistently drive better traffic to your table?

SPEAKER_01 33:22

You know, that's I feel like that to some degree is also a loaded question because, you know, obviously we all know at Blade Show Lana, well, and actually all the Blade Shows, you know, we have people that spend the night gazing in pants and they're running to certain makers. And I never like to kind of speculate or say which makers those are. But in those particular cases that those guys are spending the night for, I'm sure they can run to that person's table and it wouldn't matter if they had a table skirt and nothing on it because that person has done their job prior to the show of creating all the buzz, letting the people in their group, their email list, whatever know what's gonna be at the show. And those people are running to that table. So it doesn't matter how they've displayed the knives, if that makes sense. So now you have to be, now you have to kind of come into um the people that don't necessarily have that base yet, that are maybe new. So yeah, you're competing for eyes. So yeah, I think in that case, you know, cool branding, be it you have a banner that goes across the front of your table. Um, you know, a lot of guys create custom table covers, custom table banners. Um, you know, we do see guys that build banners that are on PVC pipe kind of above their table. Um I mean, is it can I say that that means that they're gonna get more people stopped by their table? That's really a tough because at the end of the day, I always go back to it doesn't matter where your location is on the show floor. If you have a product that somebody wants, they will come find you no matter where you are on that show floor. And I I say that tried and true because I have watched an exhibitor one year every year. He had me move him because he kept saying he wasn't getting any sales, wasn't getting the foot traffic, so I'd move him again, and I moved him again, and I moved him again. And the only thing I could finally felt like I wanted to say to him, but I would never say is I hate to tell you this, but you basically just don't have a product that somebody wants, but I can't say that, but that's what I was thinking in my mind, because we moved to every possible area on that show floor, so it really does have to do with, you know, again, your advanced preparation. What are you doing to let people know you're gonna be there in advance of the show? But then yeah, I think if you're a new person, you do want to kind of create some displays, and you know, um, I've seen a lot of people that create um, you know, knife displays with acrylic um stands, but they brand it. Um, you know, they put the pricing out there because I feel like that's another thing. I I'm sure there's some makers that could give you tips better than I can. That's what's worked for them. Um and but nothing is more maybe frustrating than somebody walking by and possibly seeing a knife and be like, ooh, I really like that knife and the price isn't there. And then there's that awkward, ooh, I can't afford that. So now I don't know how to get out of the situation. Um, so I think you know, finding a subtle way to maybe have the pricing available. Um because again, you're you're in some cases now, you're either marketing to the people that you stumbled across coming to a knife show um and have come in as not an active purchaser, or people that have made their big purchases, but now they have three hundred dollars left maybe to spend. So they're looking for that that product that fits within those margins left that they want to spend.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Yeah, and I well, there's two points that I want to make based off of uh what you said. One is that um I I think that it's it's fair uh to say with uh with exhibitors that they can create things and go to a large show and and not sell anything because what what they are manufacturing is not what the buyer is looking for. And I and I think that that's okay to say because um not not every bit of the wares that somebody creates is going to be appealing to the constituents that are coming in. And uh and uh is that is that like an intrinsic failure of the maker? Um not necessarily. They might be able to take every single one of those knives home and sell them somewhere there, but I think that's a confirmation bias, right? Like so a maker says, Okay, well, I like I'm not getting the foot traffic and I need to go somewhere else, and it's like you're you as a venue are not supplying me with the right environment for me to sell my knives, and then they go home and they sell all their stuff, and they're like, Okay, it's the venue's fault. But that's that's not true. Like, it's not it's not true because I I've always I I'm I'm very observational, and uh at all the shows that I've been to, the blade is put on, I have never felt like there's not been foot traffic. Like there's it's overwhelming how much um there is. It's kind of like um Brad Pitt's uh World War Z where the uh zombies just swarm uh areas and just like walk through the streets. That's that's like uh uh you know goers of Blade Show. They swarm and they go to the places that they uh they know that they're um looking for, where they're gonna spend the majority of their money, and then um then they start looking around. Or you have uh again, like those casual um buyers or lookers that maybe they're not convinced, maybe it's their first show, um, maybe they just want to get to know a maker and they're kind of all on the fence about spending their hard hard-earned money. But um going to shows and exhibiting as a standard business practice is is about understanding the market and then being able to produce um a product that the market wants. It's and and that's that's a lot different than a lot of makers because we kind of get a little bit um um prima donna or stuck up because as you build um as you build up your business, uh you are you are nurturing the customers that come back all the time that that really like what you do. And if you're selling online or you're doing social media stuff, whatever, you kind of only have people that interact that are about what you're selling. But at a sh at a show, like that's not necessarily the case. It's like somebody's going into uh you know, going into a uh large environment with a lot of variation, and there's everything to see. Like there, I don't know that uh like I've even seen people try to bring like guns and stuff uh and sell them at a uh Blade Show. Like there's so many people, there's so many different people trying to sell things. There's so many people trying to market their wares that as a a a goer, um I like I think this last year at Texas, um, I didn't have a table, right? And um, and I just went as a as a normal um normal person. And for me, walking walking around, I was overwhelmed with just like how much variety of things there are for me to see. And so like if I put myself in a customer's position, um I don't I I don't think that I don't think that um I'm trying to figure out a way to say this uh where it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

It's walking like it's like walking to a candy store. It's basically there's just like you don't know that you like Skittles because there's 18 variations of chocolate, and you know you like chocolate, so you never thought about even trying Skittles because you just came in there for chocolate, but now there's jelly bellies and all these other sweet and sour things, and you had no idea that you ever needed those or wanted to try those. So I I understand what you're coming from. You're walking in, and it's just like, and I feel like to add on to what you're saying, we as an industry and as a community, we have to also watch what is trending, and you will notice that we do have some what I would like to, I don't want to say fringe in a sense that they're not warranted or welcome, but we do have a kind of these EDC products, if you will, now, um, where they have become synonymous with the knife industry. And we, you know, we vet every single person that comes into the Blade Show now that's brand new. You will never be able to get a contract and just sign up and and come to the show without being vetted if you're new. So when someone decides they want to come to the Blade Show, you know, I ask for pictures, I ask for websites, I ask for, you know, social if you have it, so that I can really get an understanding of what are you selling and are you, you know, a part of the community. And there are a lot of these fringe products now that are being widely embraced and accepted by the knife community, and we do want to welcome them, even though they're not necessarily a physical knife. Um, so now you add that to the mix, i.e. in Texas when you were there, and it just adds a whole nother level now.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Oh yeah. I mean, and even within the context of uh of knives, it's like um so I have a lot of uh knives that are focused towards um hunting, right, or outdoor use. And and a a customer who comes up, they might say, Okay, well, what's this knife for? I'm like, well, you can hunt or hunt or uh uh skin. Deer with it, I don't know, right? And they're like, Oh, okay, they put it back down. But if they're looking for an EDC knife, you can say, Oh, well, I mean, you can do a lot of things with it. It's it's a it's a light knife that is uh that is uh easy easy to wear on the belt, or you can you know put your sheath in your pocket or whatever, or you could you know get a sheath for a neck knife and you can use it for you know hunting or EDC or whatever or self-defense if you need to. And it's you know it's it's all about the the c like the context in which you're presenting your goods, not that this is a a traditional hunting pattern or whatever, but that the these are the things that you can do with it. And that paradigm shift of like marketing your product to a crowd that is looking for the everyday carry knife, right? Um, like I can argue a pocket knife or uh in in all its variations or a fixed blade are all kind of EDC knives, unless you're carrying around a machete. Um most small you know hand knives are EDC knives, but the general public might not always see it that way. And so it's important to understand that like not only is the industry kind of always shifting about what is perceived value, but you as a as a maker have to be able to think in that context and be able to rebrand your products in some ways, like use of products to fit the people who are coming in looking at your stuff.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Exactly, exactly. And and I think that again is spot on to what I'm saying is you know, we we do everything we can to create an experience for both the exhibitors and the attendees, but there also has to be some some work on your part, you know, we can't we can't do it all. And to I think you that includes being educated on what is trending, what is important, where is the marketplace shifting, etc. And are you going to follow along with that shift and or are you going to continue to just kind of you know build what you're comfortable with and what you want to do, um, which there's nothing wrong with that, but it could, you know, have an impact on your sales, etc.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Yeah, well, because I I think if if you are a one trick pony in in developing products, um then you're gonna have a very narrow window of the things like people are looking for a uh that trick um versus if you're a little bit more varied in it, um in your in your productization and whatnot, then you have a higher likelihood of selling things or being successful in it because you're casting a little bit wider net. And and I think that's one thing that's real difficult because um the the knife industry kind of um trains you in being sp like very specific. Like um, like some people really just love all the loveless patterns, and so they they want a knife maker that makes loveless patterns to specification. And there's others that want um like EDCs that are very specific. They want you know the the the newer materials like uh carbon fibers and newer Mikartas and you know crazy G10s and stuff like that, but then you have like all of these other um micro niches, and it just kind of gets in this like niche where it's just like you get so siloed into a product that you're like, well, it sells here, but you've basically created this system where people are coming to you because of this thing, but if you go to a show and it's not selling, you're like, Okay, well this the show sucks, and that's uh that's like couldn't be further from the truth. Kind of um with that uh being said, I think that um there's a lot of knife makers that are not really great at marketing. Um, and and because of that, uh I think that that's one of the problems that as you enter a show, you have to as a maker understand that a show is a is a a a way to market your knives, but there are so many facets to how you can take advantage of that. And I think that that might be lost on people, like you know, because uh uh con context-wise, um it used to be that the only shows were put on by the knife makers guild, or in order to be at the show, you had to be a guild member. And if you became a guild member, um there's some people who have were guild members and they automatically sold like 60% more knives, like it made it made such an impact to be at that show because the barrier of entry was that you had to be a guild member, right? Um, but that construct doesn't exist so much anymore because you have a uh the internet and you have shows and you have to make for a larger audience where you don't have this like echo chamber of traditional knives and everything inside of the that guild context, you have to be able to appeal to uh a lot larger um uh you know set of customers and and an industry, and that's where I think a lot of um in in this like mentorship fashion of knives, where you know I'm learning from an older knife maker, they've done what they've done 30 years ago. How does that translate to what the industry is calling for now? And can you kind of um can you can you figure that out? Can you like take a portion of the like the mentorship of how to build a knife and then turn that into um being able to navigate the current uh economic and environ and environmental market? And that's kind of where I think that Blacho um has it right. Like you provide such a uh diverse but specific to knives and the industry um in environment for people to be able to put themselves into um in order to figure out like how can I do this thing and how can I appeal to it. Like that's you you provide like the test bed for that, and that's what I've I think I've always appreciated about the way that you guys run run shows and the people that you accept in and whatnot is it's it's uh yes, it's uh a drinking from a fire hose, but it there's no better environment to quickly receive feedback on what's working and what's not.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Yeah, and I think that's another nail, if you will, that you just hit on is this community is so giving in terms of, you know, I'm sure if you turned around and asked Steve Johnson for his advice on, you know, hey, what could I do different on my knives, or you know, share some of your tips that you've learned over the years. Steve Johnson would not look at you and say, absolutely not. He would automatically give you feedback whether you liked hearing what he had to say. You know, that's that's different. But I've talked to so many people that have said that's you know, that's been another advantage of shows where they've been able to take their knives up to the best in the industry and in some cases the world, and and put that knife in front of them and ask them to pick it apart. Um and, you know, what an amazing opportunity. I don't know that I can assure you that you know, Apple doesn't go to Samsung and ask them what they're doing right, and vice versa. Um, and I think that the show also creates that opportunity and that experience for newer makers to really you're up in some cases, maybe standing next to someone that you've looked up to that you've chosen to emulate, or you know, I I even take Bill Rupel as a great example, you know, a Hall of Famer with Blade Magazine, but an amazing group of slip joint makers that he's cultivated over the years and the knowledge that he's shared, and you know, watched all those guys come up the ranks and now become outstanding makers, and how they've all chose to continue to share that, and I think that's that's really another thing that's kind of amazing about our community, and you see that happen at the shows, and really what spurred us to create Blade University is we have an opportunity where we have exposure to the best of the best in the business, and you know what better place to sit down and and learn from the best of the best from a very fractional cost, um, but to sit in a room while these people are willing to share their expertise, etc. etcetera.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

Yeah, well, that's a um I've I've been interested in what you guys have been doing with Blade University because um as an outsider, like when I'm not doing show circuits, right? Um I I've always kind of felt like, well, I I really would like to be at that show, right? Um, for instance, like uh Laren Thomas was at your uh Atlanta uh Blade University, and I'm like, oh man, like of all the people, like I I had just talked to him on the podcast, he was talking about like preparing for his uh demonstration and everything, and uh to go to the show and be able to sit in on that would have been a really great experience. But as somebody who can't go to the show, um I I don't have that experience. Has it has it um I I get that um the idea um should be that you're cultivating a um a desire for people to go to the show, right? Have you guys ever thought about uh taking things like Blade University and being able to offer it after the fact to people who couldn't go to the show uh for like a uh uh not maybe like a paid subscription or um like record them or things like that and have like some production associated with it so the people who can't go can still be a part of it or see like or um get the information from it?

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Sure, yeah, we get asked that question a lot, and it's not I I don't I do want to stress it's not because we're trying to force everyone to come to the show, and if you don't come to the show, then you know, tough on you, you should have come to if you wanted to see Larry Thomas. Um it's more honestly, it's more about the bandwidth uh of people, personnel, et cetera. Kind of go back to, you know, I don't necessarily have a team, so now you're talking about, you know, needing to outsource um people, equipment, everything else who's full-time um uh responsibility at the show would be just that. And the other problem is because we have a lot of classes that run concurrently, now you're talking about multiple people needed because, you know, and create multiple equipment pieces that would be needed because everything doesn't just run one off. You know, we may have classes, multiple classes going on. So it's more that the footprint doesn't necessarily lend itself easily to reproducing that content like that. So it's not us being selfish that we're forcing people to the show to only get that content, it's more about the bandwidth and the resources that would be needed to execute on that.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Yeah, yeah, I can imagine the overhead. I mean, because like it I I would say that um by and large, if we look at the table cost um for most other shows out there and and Blade Show, uh the table costs are higher, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:44

But well, it's yeah, I I do want to interject here quickly. Believe it or not, now I don't want to, I'm not trying to compare Blade Show to a local show, you know, in, you know, let's just say Texas. Um, you know, and I'm not taking away from any knife shows that out that are out there because any knife show, the more knife shows, you know, the more vibrant the community, that's great. So yeah, if you take a local knife show that's in a ballroom inside a hotel or at the fairgrounds, yeah, your table costs might be 150. But you're also, to your point, the foot traffic is also not there. So that having been said, though, if you take the cost of a table at the Blade show and you pit it up against some of the other um bigger, you know, well more well-known shows, our table and booth costs are actually cheaper than most of those other shows, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Oh, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Part of that, yeah, part of that is because we you know, we realize that, you know, custom knife makers and everything like that. I mean, we all know the joke in the industry. If you want to make a million dollars as a knife maker, you start out with two million dollars. I mean, you, you know, so that having been said, our our goal is not to stick it to people when it comes to table cost. I, you know, we could easily make Blade Show table cost $1,000. And for most people, they wouldn't blink an eye because they're like, well, yeah, that makes sense because the amount of the people that they drive in the doors, you know, we can justify that cost. But that's that's really not what we're trying to do. Yes, we're all in the business of making money, but we also respect that the custom knife maker is not making hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. So um, you know, we we pride ourselves um on doing various things where you know we try not to raise the prices very much. We do have to raise them some because just like everything else, post-2020, all of our costs are going up. You know, so people don't realize the the significant amount of money that it takes to execute these shows. So, um, you know, but we try to do fair things where we say, hey, if you know you're coming back next year, just renew your table now, and you basically are gonna pay the same table cost um or the same booth cost. But if you were to kind of put yourself out there and look at some of the other shows and get their space contracts, you'd be surprised that Blade Show for its size, and I want to stress, I'm not talking about a more local show that happens with maybe only a hundred exhibitors total at the show, we are we're still one of the more cost-effective events to participate.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

Well, yeah, and that's that's kind of the point is um like in the as a knife maker, like perception is kind of the name of the game. Like a knife maker looks at these things and like oh the cast the cost of all this thing is like this stuff is going up, right? Or the it's like this is an extraordinary cost as compared to this, right? But like in the context of uh of exhibitions or conferences, like uh Blade Shows table fees are exceptionally low. Like, I mean, it's it is nothing for a uh like a technology company to spend you know between $25 and $5,000 on a table or booth and and not actually receive any any um uh sales from that thing, right? It's all a networking opportunity to them. So outs outside of the context of knives, when you're in a venue and you're going to see customers, you're using your marketing budget to go out there and reach to the people who um are you know in the specific avenue that you're trying to target. And so like there there's not a there's not so many industries that have um conferences or um uh exhibits where you're actively selling the wares, you're basically trying to front front load customers that will then come back and and check you out. And and that's that's a lot different. But what I mean is that um it's difficult with the um the prices that uh Blade Show offers to us as exhibitors uh to assume that we're gonna have a lot of extra bells and whistles like you know, Blade University being televised or um live events or things like that to allow um you know other people who can't come to the show to experience that because we could be talking about if if there's no revenue that's generated for the personnel that's required, it could be like I mean you you you're kind of put between a rock and a hard place. Like, how are you going to charge like a thousand extra dollars or a thousand dollars for a table just to be able to provide uh the staffing that's required to do XYZ? So you you as a as a organizer have to always think about the overhead. And I think that that's some uh something that that knife makers in the industry has to think about, is because you your job is to like really provide the best venue for those um those exhibitors to to market uh network and sell their wares, and all of these extra things, although they they might be really great ideas, but if the overhead's too high, then you'd have to increase prices. And how are you gonna do that in a in a industry where you really are trying to take into account the the knife maker or the exhibitor and how how um how you you you price them out potentially of the show. So I I I appreciate that consideration because it seems like you guys are fair and balanced about the way that you're trying to conduct this, which I think is for for your size, um, for everything that Blade uh does for the knife maker, it is um really refreshing to think about how much you think about um everyone that's involved in your um in your um uh processes in order to try to like uh even things out and make it uh fair and and equitable for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

Yeah, and and like I said, I think some of that just comes honestly comes with doing this for 15 years, you know, and just having not only I understand at the end of the day that you know we're running a business, um, and so always straddling that line of hey, we are running a business, but we understand too that we're not you know, we're dealing with people that again don't have multis and thousands of doll thousands and thousands and thousands, you know, especially in this industry. So um, you know, making sure that we can still appeal to everyone, but also create an experience that everyone gets excited about. And I think I keep going back to that word, and that's something that we pride ourselves on, is Blade Show is not just a show where you come, set up your table, and then at the end of the day you go back to your hotel or whatever. You know, we've we've worked hard and continue to strive hard, and kind of trying to find our place in Texas and West and kind of recreating the Atlanta experience, which we all know and love with the pit, um, which I think is you know just as synonymous with the Atlanta show now as anything else is. So trying to to replicate that in our other venues and creating, um, you know, right now we just at Texas and West we offer those similar classes, um, but we just do them as free demos right now. You know, we we really are just about, hey, let's get the people in and give them a taste of what coming to a blade show is like, and that is the most important, rather than collecting a little more extra money from them. Um because once we kind of feel like once you've come to a blade show and you really got a sense of the community and what it's all about, and going to a free class and sitting in a room with the the RuPaul's, the Schwarzers, the you know, the the icons of the industry, if you will, for lack of a better word, the Hall of Famers. Um, you know, we really want you to experience that. And then we know we've we've gained a concept. Customer for life that's like, man, that was awesome. And is really what strategically made us start looking at okay, how do we take this footprint and replicate it in other areas of the country? Because not everybody comes to Atlanta, it's expensive for people coming from the West Coast. So finding, you know, a locale that has you know that we can now bring the Blaiche experience to people that can't come to Atlanta. Um how do we replicate that? And we've been very fortunate, and it's taken a long time, but we finally feel like we have three um cities that have served us very well, and we're super stoked to be in all of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

Yeah, um, I have I have yet to go to your uh Blade Show West um um show. I think last year I was planning on it, but yeah, when uh my daughter she was going through a bout of rejection, I was like, well, it's either um be here and be present for family reasons or go to a show and try to navigate that space, so I had to like nope out of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:09

But um I what you've done which I'm a huge fan of family first, always, and I will always say that no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

Well, yeah, yeah, and I I still think that um very, very accommodating and understanding uh that I couldn't I couldn't go to that show. Um but um I I want to talk a little bit about like the pit experience and awards and things like that. Um but I I think it's um it's important. I I kind of want to talk about like the debacle of 2020 uh with the pandemic and and how you guys helped to navigate that uh experience for showgoers. So we we have er like late nine uh uh twenty nineteen, right? There's like this bubbling about uh you know a pandemic. We start seeing very like very uh veiled um insinuations that there's this virus that's going around, kind of like we did with bird flu and everything, uh, when that came around in China. And uh then 2020, early 2020 hits, and in the normal uh scheme of things, um, you have right right after uh the the Atlanta show in 2020, um a a person is supposed to get their contract in by a certain period of time so that way you guys can start working on what availability you have for new exhibitors, and then you start prepping for the next show uh show period, right? And then you have this pandemic that hits, and everyone, like I mean, everybody was shut down, it was a total cluster across the entire world. And um what I I so 2020 show didn't happen, obviously, but you you guys were able to turn it around and manage all all of these people and then come in for even even though I would argue that there was a lot of uh countries and exhibitors that could not come to the show, um, 2021 for me being the first show experience was still very strong. Like there was still a lot of foot track traffic and everything. Um, what did you learn from that experience? Kind of like what did you guys do to uh uh uh absorb some of the the risk associated with the show, and what did you learn from it?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

Yes, that's a great question. And and I I I only laugh because there is no handbook. There was no handbook, there was no guide, like, okay, how do we navigate a pandemic? I don't think anybody had a guide on how you navigate a pandemic. I mean, this was a learning process for not only me, but all the partners I work with, you know, our hotel partners, our decorator, our um facilities, everything. So we were all just trying to figure out these pieces and then from there navigate how do we not, you know, sock it to people when we're already down. So there's so many things that we had to go through um with our partners. Um, and as you you probably may or may not have known, because again, I can't remember. So you're right, 2019 for us for Blade Show was like the best Blade Show at the time in the history of Blade Shows. I mean, we were riding the wave, the high, everybody was just stoked. We were our 2020 signups were strong because again, we're just feeding off that energy, and everybody's like, Yeah, I'm already for next year. And then we um get to to March, and like everybody else, we were following it, but we weren't too worried because, like everybody else in the world at that time, oh, it'll be two weeks, it'll be a month. Um, and then April got here, and we're like, okay, that's not gonna be the case. So we did a survey to all of our exhibitors, and we um surveyed everybody, and we decided to move the show to August at that time, because again, we were all still uncertain, but we gave everybody options. We said you can stay on board for August, however, if you you know, if you choose not to, we're not gonna penalize anybody for choosing not to, we'll roll your funds over, etc. etc. So, like everybody else, we were just trying to kind of figure out, and so we had to get uh on board with our hotel partners, we had to make sure our decorator, we had to make sure the facility. Um, but then let's be real, there came a time and and I think it was probably at that point, June, where and it could have been even more the end of June, where we're like it was six weeks out, and I literally said to you know, our business owners, we have to make a decision right now because people have to have time to prepare and we have to react. And you know, we made the difficult decision to um pull the show, as we all know now was the right decision, because there's no way we could have done that show because nobody would have showed up, it would have been an awful expense from everybody. So that was new navigating all that, you know, transferring everybody's money, reassuring everybody, you know, spaces will be held, your money will still be there. Um, you had the option to get your money back if you didn't, you know, want to take the risk that 21 was going to be better. Um and then fast forward 2021, we had the opportunity, as some people know, to take over what at the time was the ICC e show. Um, we just created a little show and people were stoked because it was the first opportunity. The community, like I said, I can't stress this community enough. They love being with each other, and people were missing nice shows. They were missing with being with their peers. We, of course, Texas was all about no masks. Um, so we knew that it was gonna be a good venue to a small venue. Um, we took that show over and we kept it ICCE just so there was an awareness. Um, and we had a line out the door on opening morning. People were just excited to be back, and they had money burning in their pocket, um, and that gave us the confidence to keep moving forward with Blade Atlanta, knowing that it wouldn't be a Blade Atlanta that um like 2019, but we saw the response for Texas, so we knew let's do this, the people will show up. Same experience, people were just excited to be with the community again. People had money to burn, you know, they had money to spend. Um and so that's why the 2021 show was able to take place and still was a good show for a lot of people. Um, and we were we were somebody willing to take the risk, and it was, it was a risk. I mean, because we knew if we were still gonna have to wear masks, that was not gonna work with our community. Like that was just not gonna happen. But we were we were willing to take the risk and go there, and you know, it paid off, maybe not necessarily financially, but it you know, it paid off because we said the community is here, they're Thursday, they want to be back together, and the people will show up. Um, and we did that. Um and believe it or not, for as much as much um negativity that COVID brought into this world, the one advantage for us as Blade Show is it opened up venues that we had long looked at getting a show at. Those doors opened because events either went away, they weren't willing to take that risk. Um, they found other ways to do shows virtual, whatever that case may be. And those venues that we had been hoping to get into for years, i.e. Texas, and now our home of Blade Show West Salt Lake City, those doors opened. And finally, like I alluded to earlier, gave us a home for now what will be Blade Show, Texas for years to come and Blade Show Yes West for years to come.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:45

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's pretty incredible in the context of what you guys do and the teams that you have that um you're you're able to to navigate that. And like I I don't really care too much about what uh individual knife makers think about the way that it was handled. I don't think that there was any better way to handle it because there was no way, right? They like again, you there was no instruction manual. Um like the reality is for a lot of people in the context of the pandemic and whatnot, they shut shuttered their doors and they have not recovered. Yes. And and you guys, like collectively have been able to turn that that situation into an environment where now not only do we have Atlanta, but we have Texas and uh West, and and so we have th three blade experiences a year. That's incredible to me. Um I'm interested to know because I you know you you have to answer to uh ownership and everything. Um how did you feel um with with Henry Wu uh and the the support and everything? Like I assume that the like he he took a risk as a business owner in being able to allow you guys to navigate this space and and uh feel comfortable with making the right decisions. Like, was that an easy process and trying to balance everything out? Um, did was there any um situation that um you guys were uh considering the the risk not being worth it?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:28

Absolutely. I mean, and you know, Henry's been with us now since 2018, and and like everything when you have new ownership, you know, we all kind of had our um our own challenges that that we navigated, and um there's there's nothing that I can't say that has not been more better than Henry coming in, and and you know, we he and I work so well together now in terms of collaborate collaborating on these events, and his passion for this industry has grown significantly. Um but he and I obviously in 2020 there was a lot of back and forth because he's stepping back from a business standpoint, justifiably so, of kind of okay, we plug, you know, we pull these shows, they're you know, that's gonna be a huge financial hit to our company and what's gonna what's gonna happen as a result of that. And then me, but me also looking at it from a personal standpoint of you know, we we can't we can't put these people at risk either. So navigating all that, again, no no manual to help us do that. But in 2021, um, believe it or not, in everything that I do before I sometimes make decisions, because I have been here for 15 years, I have some amazing relationships with so many people. I picked up the phone, I picked up the phone for days, and I called people before the Texas event that we did, and I said, guys, this is what we're thinking about doing. Would you come? And overwhelmingly was 100%, hell yeah, we're there. Um, and so you know, I went back to Henry and I said, Okay, I think we do this. And of course, going back now to his business hat, if you will, he's like, Okay, yeah, then let's go because we gotta make up for you know 2020. So um, you know, me having those relationships and just being able to pick up the phone and call all those guys um was huge. And that is really what was kind of the catalyst for us saying, all right, let's do this. People are ready, they trust us, they're ready to be back together, and the country's opening back up, and let's go. And that really is how kind of Texas 2021 started, is me calling a lot of these people and then kind of assuring Henry, like, we've got this, we can do this, and then him being 100% on board and supporting it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:16

That is really exciting stuff to me. Um, like anytime I I personally see where um there's there's a moment where you can like everybody can rise to the challenge or they can fail out. Um I I always look at uh that situation and uh if depending on what the behavior is, depends on whether I'm disappointed or I'm really, really proud, right? And I'm really proud of you guys, um, because I I think like you and Henry and your your entire team um made a decision that that could have broken the system by which uh we as knife makers are able to exhibit with shows and whatnot, right? And and you you thought about the spirit of what it is that you guys are trying to do. And if it was if it was a hundred percent a business decision, then I I don't know how easily uh any of us would have recovered if if shows were the things that we were relying on for um for our bread and butter, right? Like I I I I think I put myself in Henry's situation. So 2018 um he makes this humongous investment in um in going into this avenue of pandemic kits, and then he's like, All right, like I have a decision I have to make. Um do I continue uh to float this thing, this idea, and um or or do I I try to mitigate risk? And with your advocacy and reaching into the industry and collaborating with uh other uh makers and and other uh people that in your role decks that you trust, you guys were able to come up with a plan that um weathered the storm. There was a community of makers and and uh exhibitors that supported you in that decision, and now we have way more than we did pre-pandemic, right? You guys took a risk and you and you trusted the process and you loved what you're doing, and then it turns into this thing where now we have more of what we had before. It's like it's not that it was like bust and we'll never recover, it's that now you guys are like hitting on cylinders with three shows and doing the same thing um across the United States and providing more opportunities and bringing that experience um uh to Texas and to West and Salt Lake. To me, that's incredible. Like, um who how many opportunities uh do you get to witness um people caring so much about something that you guys can work through it and then because of that you get like blessings um and and success in return? Like that's that's really cool to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:24

Well, and something you know, something that I for lack of a better word, pride myself on. I'm not a I try not to be a prideful human being, is but it is acknowledging that the Blaise show it it isn't about me. People are not coming to Blaise Show at the end of the day to see me. They, I mean, the exhibitors are happy to see me, but at the end of the day, every who we're creating these experiences for are for you guys and your customers and creating an experience that they can all come and love. And so um, you know, uh I have cultivated these amazing relationships where I value so much the input of makers and and not only makers, but you know, even some of the factory production guys. And, you know, when I'm thinking about introducing something or doing something that would have a major impact, I'm not talking about like I call guys and ask them what we should charge for tickets, but you know, doing something that might change the overall uh engagement of the show or how we handle something that would be a major change, because one thing I've learned in this industry, a lot of guys don't like change. Um, you know, I call people and I get their feedback and I ask them and I say, this is what I'm thinking about doing. You know, give me your feedback. Uh I want to hear the pros and cons if we do this. Um because at the end of the day, if it's something that's widely received as negative or cons, I don't I'm not gonna do it because I don't want to jeopardize what we have created. Um but it's nice that I have that opportunity to do that and so value so many people in this industry and their opinion and look at the Blade Show as as theirs. You know, it's not just about us running it as a business. It the Blade Show is is you guys all as the exhibitors as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:35

Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, I everybody should know, like, be be kind to Alicia. Like uh, like really and I mean that because like um like even within the context of this interview, um I I'm I'm I'm intrinsically invested in uh in trying to uh protect your spirit, like the thing that you bring, everybody should just be like, we have to protect Alicia, we have to protect this thing. You're our biggest advocate, right? Like without without you helming this this thing that you know people think about event planners and they're like, oh whatever, but um but they don't realize how much uh goes into it. Like you're thinking on so many different planes that uh you know to to just do stuff adequately is hard enough, but then to think uh in a way where you can make the most out of the experience takes a just a a really unique person, and that's what I see in you. Um it's uh you know, going into like the the this awards uh experience in the pit, right? So contextualizing this for people who have not uh gone to Blade Show yet. Um there's the show and then there's the after show, right? There's the there's the the show and the exhibit, and then there is the the pit. So the pit exists in the uh what's the hotel again?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:07

I forget the uh uh in Atlanta, it's the Renaissance Waverly Hotel.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:12

Yeah, so yeah, yeah. So the the Renaissance Waverly Hotel is this um humongous um hotel that all the rooms are on the outside, and there's this humongous atrium, like just all the way up to the to the ceiling. And in the pit at the first floor, there's um a a bar and food, but then there's this uh this uh conglomeration of of exhibitors and customers and collectors and purveyors and and blade show that they all mingle together, and this is really kind of the heart of networking. Like it just as much as the show is a as a a piece for networking, when you go to the pit, you kind of like um you know slough off the the show regardless. And everything, and you get down to talking to people uh over a a scotch or over some appetizer because they haven't eaten all day, or after the sheer exhaustion, it's like everybody gets to let their hair down. And that environment is so conducive towards making friends and building lasting relationships. Like for to me, the show is amazing, but then to go and have this experience in the pit where we can say, Oh, we we got through the day. Uh, we we we uh dealt with the customer onslaught and standing on our feet all day and talking to people, and I might be hoarse, but I'm still gonna try to meet this person. And I'm um when it comes to like that, I I I don't know how you replicate that, but it's an amazing uh component of the show experience, right? Um when it comes to awards, um that's like an incredible experience as well, because uh Blade Show awards have now um now come uh come to have been known or be known as as like the the who's who. It's like it's like receiving a Grammy or an Oscar in knives. Um how do you navigate the the process for making sure uh that the award process and everything like that goes smoothly? Like is there like it's it seems like a lot of orchestration after you've already like you're already actively doing all this this actual show stuff?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:36

So I can here's how I can speak on the awards, because believe it or not, that is something that originally was created from a magazine standpoint. So actually all the awards at the show are kind of created uh spawn from the Blade magazine. And then what we have been trying to do, though, over the years is like you said, make it almost Oscar Grammy worthy. Like this is something you really aspire to. So one thing I want to do more than anything is clear up some misconceptions out there that you know awards are, you know, we we hear it all. Awards are they won the award because they spend sponsorship dollars, they won the award. How come so-and-so didn't win the award, he has a much better knife. The awards are chosen strictly by the people that choose to bring them in and be you know voted on. So when someone says, well, so-and-so is a much better knife maker, no one's gonna discount that. However, if so-and-so didn't bring his root knife into the judging room at the designated time to be part of the judging process, then that person's not gonna win. So we do our best um at every show to we send out you know what the category categories are in advance. Um, and what we've done over the last two years is also try to streamline it. So Atlanta is kind of the benchmark where it has every single award that we we do. Those all happen at Atlanta. And then what we've done is um streamline them a little bit in Texas and West, because you're talking about, you know, almost a thousand exhibitors in Atlanta, but then you know, only 300 exhibitors maybe in Texas and you know, 250 at West, you're not gonna have all those categories. And there's something to be said about well, you basically won the award because nobody else entered. We don't want that because that that takes away from the cachet of winning that award. Um so you know, there may be 15 custom categories in Atlanta, but we only have six custom categories in Texas because we take an inventory of all the exhibitors and try to get the best representation of what types of knives those makers all make. Um so again, I do want to clear up the misconception that the winners are solely voted on based on who brings their actual knives into the judging room to be judged. And then we, in both cases for factory and custom, we have a panel of neutral judges, which is another misconception that we like to clear up. Everybody has an opinion on how they think we do it, um and those judges that have then have the criteria, and then usually um somebody like a Steve Shackelford, who's more than um experienced, could serve as a tiebreaker in the room. Um but that is basically how the awards process is done, and we have continued to evolve it. And like we said, we're trying to make that program a program that people aspire to win the Blade Show Award. Um, but I can't stress enough that the winners are chosen based on who brings their knives or their product to the voting area.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:35

And I think that's that's big to stress that.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:38

Yeah. What is the uh the the Wayne Gretzky uh uh quote? It's a you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:45

Right. So we we don't have, especially in Atlanta, there's no way we could have judges walking up and down every single table of 700 tables and choose the winners. I mean, it it that cannot be done. So, however, this year, because I will say I went above and beyond the PA system in Atlanta, is la more than lackluster in the exhibit hall. It basically sounds like the teacher, you know, in the old Snoopy um shows, you know, where it's just a voice and you can't understand it. So I took a bullhorn and went up and down every single aisle on Friday and reminded people to take their knives to the judging rooms because the judging was beginning. So, you know, everybody knew, hey, listen, if you want your knife and you want it to be entered, you know, you need to get it in there. Um so, you know, like anything else, that's just gonna continue to take time and um and and for people to understand that hey, yeah, there we do put effort into this. It's not just you know, a couple of us, I don't have anything to do with the voting. So I just make sure that it's facilitated and everybody's educated, and all the exhibitors know where to go and where to be, and what the categories are going to be, and what the judging criteria is and all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:15

Yeah, well, and uh part of the uh the cachet that you're talking about is like so you know you you submit your knives and you get them in inspected and judged on, and then assuming that you you win, right, you get a physical award, you get recognized on social media, but then also you get your your knife photographed by Coop, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:43

It depends on which show, actually. Um, because we do have a couple different photographers. Um, and then yes, you get a photograph, but then it's also in um Blade Magazine, in the next issue of the Blade magazine.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:58

So all the winners are always featured in the next Blade magazine. And then, like you said, they're featured on our social, and then they're featured on Blade Magazine social, and then they're featured on BladeMag.com as well. So there's, you know, there's a lot of visibility um for a maker that goes just beyond us handing them a nice little, you know, trophy at the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:26

Well, yeah, because um observationally, um, there is a lot of buzz that gets developed uh because of of awards, right? And it's usually like everybody waits to hear um right after the award ceremony who got what and when, right? And it's it's not only people who follow uh Blade Show, but then the individual makers are like posting up stuff and saying, Oh, I'm like incredibly honored. It always it's always like a uh a thing where everybody's taken aback by them actually winning the award when they do, right? Um it's kind of it's kind of like you know, when people when you watch the Oscars and uh actors come up and they're like you know crying and or Miss America where they're like yeah, uh there's a loss of words um and you have to like uh play music to get them off the stage when they accept it. It's it's it's kind of like that. But you know, there's a lot of customer buzz, there's a lot of like industry buzz from awards, and to me that's really great because like if there's if there's like if there's something that um knife makers can look at uh that that builds uh attention and excitement, um, your awards process and and the ceremony and everything like that, like the exposure is a humongous deal. Like you that's something that can really bring a lot of uh of exposure to a maker if they will put the effort into um bringing their A game to these uh shows and and their work, right? Um and to me uh looking at it on the periphery at the time that I wasn't uh doing shows and then also seeing uh what what it's like to be in the room while all this stuff is going on, uh the experience is really cool. Um it's just a it's it's a it's just so much more than going to a show and putting your stuff out and um and trying to sell knives. It's this entire experience and being able to um um I guess just be a fly in the wall of like just the conglomeration of so much success and so much artistry and so much creativity and so much um heart and soul that goes into this this knife engine. And so um to me um you know the shows shows that are put on by Blade Show are just exceptional. And I don't think that you ever um if people are just looking at the context of Blade Show within the context of local shows or um or gun shows or things like that, they'll never really um be able to appreciate just how much more you guys are trying to focus on um making making the experience exceptional.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:16

Yeah, and and I appreciate that. And I and I can't go back, I mean I'm sorry, I can't stress enough again, like experience and and you just said it too. That's ultimately at the end of the day, I think is what does set us apart from other um night shows. And there's a lot of successful knife shows in our industry, and they each fill their need, they each fill their niche, they each serve their purpose, and again, they all just make um knives stay relevant as a whole, as this industry and this community. And I think all of them bring value, but where we maybe excel is some of the other things that we bring to the table to make it more than just a show. You know, you you come for a weekend, people take days off to come to the Blade Show, like they take vacation days. I get more emails asking when are tickets going on sale than any other email sometimes. Um and that's exciting. You know, people want to know because they've got a plan and they and you know, they want to know when they can book their hotel, and and that's exciting. And when you're looking at people, you know, coming for the weekend, they're coming because for them that's their little mini getaway. And they're gonna have a reunion and they're gonna meet all their boys or women. Don't want to discount any of the amazing women in this industry. Um, you know, it's a weekend that they they look forward to. And you know, I've seen knife makers that no no longer exhibit at our shows for what various reasons, which I love and accept. But daggone it if they still don't come to one blade show just because they still want to be there and they still want to be a part of it and they still want to be with the community, but for whatever reason, you know, they just don't have that bandwidth to create enough product at this point in their lives right now to kind of man a table or man a booth for the weekend, but they still want to be there.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:18

Yeah, well, and uh kind of touching on the point of like a women in knives, um there's there has traditionally uh uh been a a focus in knives towards uh a man's market, right? Like uh all the old guild shows, everything like that, gun shows, it all is like centered towards well the uh uh a it's it's a male-driven industry, right? But one thing that I think is uh very interesting about what you guys cultivate is the um that you you provide an environment where um where women in knives and women in this craft are also um have an equal playing field um to be able to exhibit their work. And it doesn't you know no longer do we uh exist in an age where the only women in knives are the wives that watch tables and support the knife maker. Like there's some incredible, incredible uh knife makers and and craftsmen, um like Grace Horn, for instance for uh instance. I mean, she makes incredible scissors, and she makes it a point to come to uh Blade Events, and um and to me that's exciting because um since since our son uh passed um we have a house full of of daughters, and I think a lot about um I do knives, but what what does that look like for my daughters? Like what do do they say, oh, I could be a knife maker like dad? Um and back in the day, it's like no no, just go and do something else because like when you like knives are a guy's thing. Um but my my youngest daughter, even our uh 18-year-old Shea, they they've all talked about making knives. They've all talked about uh you know, we've taken um our our uh second oldest daughter to several blade shows. I take uh our youngest one to Texas because it's local, and uh they they are all excited about knives because they see faces inside of the crowd that represent them. Absolutely um, you know, yeah. I mean it's a it's an incredible thing. Like and and I love that. I mean, I love uh the inclusiveness that you guys provide in just being able to provide a a darn good show and then uh allowing everybody to be impressed by just the the diversity, the diversity of products, of people, of of of the sexes, right? And and being able to use that as a reference point that where then they it's normalized for them. They see uh you know incredible uh knife makers and artisans and everything. And you know, if if anybody thought that like uh event planning was just like this this thing that happens, they can look at you as an example and just uh be spurred on to be um you know the best at trying to cultivate their own thing in the context of what um of you know coordination and customer service and advocacy and networking. Like you are a role model for um for like my daughters, and that to me is just incredible to be able to be a part of a knife community where I have so many great role models for my daughters to look at. I I could reference you as a as a case in point to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:45

Oh well, first of all, thank you so much. That that warms my heart. And and I think you're right. I think another thing that, you know, two years ago we did actually an all-women's panel as part of Blade University, really celebrating women and knife making. Um, and then even in Texas last year, you know, we worked with Bradford knives, and they um, you know, have created a kid-friendly knife. And, you know, just really stressing those things when we promote our shows, kind of giving a little extra attention to detail to your point. Like, this is a family event. Bring the kids. Like there's you know, you're right, the women in this industry are not just the women supporting their husbands, which I do want to stress and put a lot of value on, because as we all know, behind every good man is a good woman. But um, you know, we we do want to celebrate that. And I think the aspirational thing that you said, I mean, I can't think of I know there's tons of father and daughter teams. Obviously, Jason Knight and Tiger Lily Knight is just an amazing example of you know someone that has learned from such a nurturing father, you know, but then has created her own identity and her and her own brand and her own knives. And, you know, watching that relationship um grow is is amazing. And so I think you're right, you know, if your daughter decides she wants to follow in her footsteps and and learn to make knives, I think that's that's awesome. And that's that's a culture that we want to cultivate for everybody. And you know, we have I have some 16, 17, and 18-year-old knife makers that have come to me and want to be an exhibitor. And I mean, how cool is that? You know, like an 18-year-old that asked me if it's okay, can he set up and have his own table? I'm like, absolutely, you can have your own table. Um, and that's really cool. And then you look at um uh Caris Fisher that just uh was a 19-year-old that just got her ABS Master Smith two weekends ago. So, you know, Josh Smith Josh Smith was the other one that was the youngest as a 19-year-old. But you know, Paris following in her father's footsteps, and now she's a 19-year-old ABS Mastersmith. Like, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:20

Yeah, no, it's incredible. I mean, um, you know, and talking about like like niches inside of um um the the the blade show environment, like we have uh bala songs, right? I mean, for for for better or for worse, um I had uh a Lucas Cow on uh like quite a while ago, but uh we talked about squid industries. Yeah, I mean not only is he not only was he managing the booth, but every single parent and child who was interested in ballast songs, they treated with so much care. Um I I I felt like um as a customer, because uh our seven-year-old at the time was like, I want to do this. Uh uh so uh Piper Robertson, uh Tim Tim Robertson's wife, right? Um uh her sons were flipping their um their squid industry ballast songs, like the practice ones. And um and my daughter looked at that and said, Oh, hey, can we go over and look at that? So then we went over to Squid Industries and I bought uh ballastongs for my daughters, and then they were all flipping and everything. And um it's it's incredible that that's an an inviting way for children. But then like like going back and talking about women in the knife industry, like Piper Robertson sits in a row with the slip joint cartel, and everybody knows them Texas boys, uh, especially the slip joint cartel, are a rough cow, uh crowd of rowdy cowboys and Texans. And she's she's been able to carve out a a niche for herself within leather working uh that that uh to me it takes a lot of fortitude because she's had to like navigate how to figure out not only uh being an artisan within leather, but then also being able to pick up on the industry and make uh just not only is her leather work just like incredibly beautiful, but uh the all all of her uh slip uh slip sheets and everything are just uh beyond uh beautiful. Like, I mean, all the different materials she uses. And she she goes to Bladeshow and she looks for suppliers for leather and things like that that help her to create these things. You know, she's constantly cultivating this uh uh these uh relationships and this idea of creativity within within leather work that applies to all of us in knives. And to me, like if if you think about like how Blade creates. An environment where it everybody just th can thrive. To me, that really starts.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:09

No, and I'm and I'm sorry, I mean you hit it spot on. And the minute you said that too, I think about you know, I personally like to go to other shows sometimes, not from a standpoint of I'm like, ooh, what are they doing that we could do? But it gives me a chance to see a lot of our exhibitors that I never get a time to spend time talking to because I'm so busy at my own shows. I love supporting other events, but then also getting that time. And same thing, I was at a show a while back and got the opportunity to introduce Piper and um Sarah from Soulbound Leather, who have now um become basically best friends, and to your point, have shared a lot of knowledge between themselves. And you know, another again, another great example of just a powerhouse woman in the industry, also in her leather making. And it's been fun to watch Piper and Sarah and that relationship grow because you know, I've introduced them, um, and same thing. You know, you you do that, you have a knife maker who maybe's a fixed blade maker, and they need someone that makes sheaths. So you get this blade show experience where, hey, so-and-so, have you actually met so-and-so that makes these awesome sheaths? You two should collaborate. And then again, to your point, it just creates that networking and business opportunity that you're not gonna get on email groups or social media or things like that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:50

Oh, yeah. Yeah, Sarah's work is pretty amazing. And I I I like uh her she's really great about social media too. Yes. Um, and so like I I see where she's like collaborating and doing um sheets for Jason Knight and you know, this this the knife maker celebrities, and she's uh sh in her own right doing her own thing within the context of knives, she's been able to uh really make an incredible business for herself um and and embrace that culture. And I mean, to me, uh there's there's just so much. Like, I mean, I can take individual facets of the things that happen at Blade Show and really kind of like I just marvel. Like, and but like kind of like to that point, you have really great people. I I say really great people as in you and Henry and and Shackelford and and all of the people that that touch every aspect of the show that just exude um passion. Uh it's it's like the uh getting my badge when I like that's it's an exciting time. Like you you go up the the day before when badges open up and you start like going through the kiosk process, and and I've never had a single issue. They've always either found my my badge or printed it up for me. And everyone that you have working the badge stand itself are just incredibly helpful too. They're just like lovely people to help work through the process of getting things done. And to me, it's like great people, like great people in at Blade Show, um, help great artisans become greater. And to me, it's it's something that you guys should be incredibly uh proud of. I'm just proud of like to be a part of it. It's as an exhibitor, sitting on the periphery, being able to talk to you about these things. To me, that's just it screams like woo. Like it's just like uh it makes me excited about like what happens in knives.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:47

Yeah, I can't, like I said, I can't stress enough. I mean, I'm um I'm overwhelmingly blessed to do what I do, and I can't even imagine not doing this now. Don't get me wrong. There's days where I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, I I will tell you, 2020 was rough. I got beat up pretty bad, and I I think it goes back to what you were saying, and and again, that was more from the attendees than the exhibitors of people not understanding their art their humans behind all this. These are, you know, I don't, you know, these aren't robots, these aren't, you know, no names that are over in a foreign country sitting behind a computer. You know, those are the human beings that cares so much. And the attendee is not gonna know that, and that's okay. But 2020 was definitely the roughest year, I mean, the history of doing these events because people were just angry in general. They're angry at the world and they were just taking taking it out on anybody they could. But that having been said, um, you know, you I get to do what I love, but you're also when you strip it back to its core, you're working with people that love what they do. If you're a knife maker, you're getting to do something you love and that you're passionate about. And so when passionate people work with passionate people, it makes it a lot more um exciting. And then, like you said, the buildup, and then you get to the plate show, and everybody's just so stoked to be there because they're excited to see their friends, it's a reunion, they're excited for a fun weekend, they know it's gonna be a fun weekend, um, they know it's gonna be a fun experience, and if you can come into it with that attitude, yeah, you ultimately definitely want to still sell your product. That's also the reason you're there. But if you can look at all those other things, like, hey, I get to spend the weekend around. I mean, at this point, probably some of my closest friends, literally in my life, that I could call at a moment's notice, are from this industry at this point. You know, and that's been built out uh years and years and years now. That you know, I call separate from you know, the blade show. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:12

Um I kind of one of my last points I want to hit on is social media. Um it's it's refreshing um in in in my first experience with uh with Blade Show and and uh you know a big show. Um uh a buddy of mine from Texas couldn't make it to his table, um, and so it was an empty table for 2021. And we ended up putting candy on uh on his table and refreshments. I I probably spent more on candy than I made on knives for that show. Um, but Steve Steve Johnston and his wife uh were like, you know, they're they're sitting at their tables and they didn't really have the ability to go get snacks and stuff, so they were just like munching on candy. It was a great experience, but then so many people came by just to get like candy, and we had snacks for kids, like a goldfish and like uh you know gummy packs and stuff like that. And um, I posted up on my social um that uh it was primarily on Instagram that we had this table and everything, and then you guys uh reposted that and just like it it was constant. I had to buy pounds and pounds and pounds of candy and food. We went to I think of Sam's Club and just bought like a bunch. I I probably spent like three or four hundred dollars on on stuff. But to me, like the the experience of being uh being shared by y'all and and your team, like who who primarily runs your social media? Do you have a team uh that that runs that or do you help to curate that? Or like who who's kind of like the the people behind that uh that orchestration?

SPEAKER_01 1:57:54

It is a team. I do have a social media person, but I also actively um you know I also actively roam our social, and the reason why I do that goes back to relational for anything else. I can't stress enough. People are not coming to the Blade Show to see me. They're coming to the Blade Show to see you guys, they're coming to see your products. So if you guys are taking the time to tag us with your knives and your products and what you're bringing to the show, that ultimately is what is driving the people in the door. So they're coming to buy knives, they're coming to see you guys. And so I can't stress enough, and which is why we create you know the social media banners and encourage people constantly, you know, to tag us and reach out to our exhibitors on social media, let us know what you're bringing, because we will repost it to our story. You know, now if someone posts every every work in progress of their you know, knife, we may not post all of those because seeing a knife in its infancy, you know, not necessarily always the most glamorous picture, but um it really makes a difference all the way around. So it's just as important for us to promote your stuff. Um plus you know, then it's it's a it's a win-win, if you will, because you're tagging us, and then we're re-tagging you. So again, it's a mutually beneficial thing, but that's that's what Blade Magazine and Blade Show was created for the knife industry, and we want to support and build up the knife industry, and the only way we're gonna do that is to share the content that you guys are creating. Because that's at the at the end of the day, that's what they're coming to see. They don't care that Alicia's gonna be there, they care what Aaron's bringing and what his inventory is gonna look like on his table.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:03

Yeah, I get that. Well, I mean you guys do an incredible job, like uh front end to back end. It's just um uh being able to talk to you about it is uh even more cool because it's again, there's there's so much conjecture, there's so much uh between the the rumor mills and everything that happen uh in knives that um it's great to uh hear things from the horse's mouth, as it were. And um, I have always really appreciated um Blade Shows. Like sometimes it's an investment for for me because you know the table cost is not so much, but it's like the um hotels or Airbnbs, it's like like all that. So, you know, probably for for me personally, in my locale, it probably costs about um thirty five hundred to four thousand dollars all in to be able to facilitate a show, and that's with table and hotel and everything like that. But um but um the experiences that I've developed um going to your show um or shows, I should say, because Blade Show, Texas is like right around the corner for me. Um it to me it's it makes it worth it. Uh to me it it I'm I'm paying just as much for the experience that I get out of it as um being able to go and sell knives and market and everything. Uh so uh you guys are rocking it. Uh and I really do appreciate everything that you do, and I hope that our listeners uh on the show uh understand that the the person behind um behind all of this is you and they and they care um you know you care uh a lot about what what happens to us, what our our trajectory is. And you've been able to um network and to collaborate with so many people inside of the the business structure that you have, but also the industry as a whole to try to make this better. So it's like if you're if anybody thought that you were an unsung hero, um you really they need to understand just how much you actually do. And so I will iterate it one more time be kind to Alicia, like love on her, send it, send her some chocolates, bring some gifts to Blade Show, like give like lavish her because she is a gem in in our industry, and we need to have her all like all for all time.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:37

Oh well, I appreciate that, and more than anything, obviously, just appreciate you giving me the platform to not only just talk about something clearly I love, but uh as always dispel some of those rumors or some of those um misconceptions that people have and and don't understand or to your point kind of already just conjured up in their mind their own opinion. Um it I could probably just do a podcast alone dispelling all the rumors about Blade Shows that are out there.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:13

Yeah. Well, I mean, food for thought. Um I definitely think that um being able to have a uh a show packet or something, or you know, blog posts or things like that, uh, or you know, YouTube videos or something, whatever medium is is chosen to be able to go through all those points would be like incredibly helpful because I didn't know any of those things. I learned it through osmosis and trial and error. Um and it it just it so happens that you guys are just incredibly um communicative on how to do this thing and to go through the like the rudiments, but you're like I definitely think that um it's helpful for people who are getting into it to to know because that there's there's a subset of knife makers who they're just like I'm not gonna do shows. Like maybe they'll go to them once in a while, but they're like, I'm not gonna do it. I have the internet, I saw all my my wares. And um I I I want to convey this that um you know when when I hear that from knife makers, like I understand it, but I also get a little bit um defensive is not the right word, but um I hold what the experience of what I get from Blade Show very personally. Um I love it, uh I really do. And so when I hear that other people are like, nah, you know, it's not really for me, I don't care about shows. I'm like, you don't you don't understand? It's not a show, it's an experience. Like it it is something that is just beyond the scope of what you can contain in the word show. And you have to be you have to like you have to be in it, and you have to be in it for even sometimes a little while just to kind of understand how that thing works. But once you do, you appreciate it so much. Like anybody who is like on the fence about going to a show, um, I would say you can cut your teeth on local shows and everything like that, and you you'll get some really great experiences. But if you want just like the ultimate uh experience in knife making shows and just the engine that Alicia's uh helped to create and facilitate, go to a Blade Show, get on the waiting list for a table. It is worth the money, it is worth the time, and you'll have an entire industry of people to help back you in you know how to navigate those things. So, you know, it you what you guys do is just incredible, and I'm I'm a big fanboy.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:37

Well, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. And to your point, I've uh there's people I've actually told them don't come exhibit at Blade Show yet. I I literally have said come to the show first, really take it all in, soak it all in to your point so that you're not out all these additional, you know, costs and really understand it, see what people are doing, talk to people, see what works for them, what doesn't work, and then come back and exhibit at a boys show.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:10

Yeah, that's uh that's really great advice. Maybe I should have done that, uh, but I'm uh I'm used to I'm I mean I'm used to drinking from a fire hose. So I mean for me it's just like whatever, I'll like I I'm like the definition of YOLO sometimes. Um so That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:26

We love that too. And the only reason they say that is, you know, is because then they they don't have a great first year and they don't see past the I didn't sell any knives, and then they don't come back and then they say the blade show sucked, we didn't sell any knives. But that's okay. But I I feel like hey, come and see it, understand it, talk to people and then come back and exhibit. And depending on where you are geographically now, maybe come to Texas, maybe go do Blade Show West first, smaller, you know, smaller venture, smaller location, and then go to Atlanta. And I think that that also lends itself now to having more success.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:15

Yeah, no, I I fully agree. I mean it's a it's a great environment. Whenever you guys decide to expand into Europe and do like a Blade Show London or something, um, I'll be first uh to sign up for that show.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:26

Well, awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:28

Well, thank you, Alicia. It's uh it's an incredible pleasure. And anytime you ever need anything, you're you know, just let me know and I'll be more than happy to step in and help you. If you need lift boxes or do something at a show, I'll be there for you. And if you need me to like bounce something off of somebody or use any of my tech skills, you're you like I I am a tool that you could use as as part of your network. So I really appreciate everything you do and your time invested in talking with me. Uh it's it's a humongous pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:56

Well, thank you, and thank you again for you know allowing me to to talk about something I love, but also, you know, hopefully educate people and and allow people to to realize just you know how much um love and hard work does go into this. But it's really be from somebody that just truly enjoys what they do.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:18

Absolutely. I couldn't agree it more. Well, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:26

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Good Old Blades Podcast. Remember that you are loved and God bless.